Water Transport Pricing - HELP

[1105]

WAKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA Can anyone please tell me what the going rate for hauling in water by the load, per 325 gal. One guy I know said he charges 125.00 per 300 gal that he hauls to the jobsite. What other prices are out there. I have proposed to a contractor XX.00 per load/trip, new construction that’s two loads/trips per job = XXX.00 for two loads of water. The average load will cost FUEL (DIESEL GOLD), TRAVEL TIME 1.5 – 2.5 HRS ROUND TRIP, MYSELF AND 1 EMPLOYEE @ 10.00 HR.

To do the house, garage floor, porch, patio, sidewalks, driveway its gonna take two loads. I had to argue the point of not charging by the partial load with him. A tank and a quarter will still involve two trips.

What is a good fair rate. The guy in charge of invoicing thinks this is way to much. He understood at the meeting, but now says they can’t pay this on top of the price for doing the job. I am not charging for the water, I am just trying to cover the cost involved with the transportation. If this was a temp situation, I would not even charge, But this drought is gonna last a few months I think. I need some opinions please.

[CaroliProWash]

Jaime, is this not something you can do with reuse water to shorten your trip time or possibly run 2 rigs just to save windshield time?

Celeste

PS - Call me 336-261-3051 I might have another alternative for all that driving.

[1105]

Re-use water is out. To much red tape and run off, time is still involved. I have considered bumping to a 500 gal tank (I have to check my weight limit) to help. Thought about saying OK... I'll give you one trip per job in exchange, no concrete cleaning house and garage only. That would allow me to clean all with one tank. Next issue, they say they want three houses in one subdivision cleaned on a given day. Thats three trips hauling water or atleast 4 hours travel plus fuel and wages. I can't eat that much. I will call you...Thanks.

[Scott Stone]

This the way I figure it:

Travel Time, two employees at $10 an hour, with Benefits, etc. 2.5 hours ~$75
Truck expense 1.5 hours @ 30 MPH ave. 45 miles, minimum ~$22.50
Lost Revenue @ $45 an hour, since if you were not doing this you would
be doing somethig else making money ~$67.50

Total cost for one tank of water (per trip) ~$165

That being said, if ti si new construction, there should be some water somewhere for you to tap into. Every new construction that I have seen has had at least one house in the vicinity tha had the water turned on, and usually they all do. If the SUperintendent doesn't want you to use the water, he is just being a jerk.
You need to remember that the AP guy ( I assume that is the guy in charge of invoicing) has one job, and that is to make the contractor money. Just like the Super has one job, to make the contractor money. If you want to think about it, you have one job, too. That is to make YOU money.
All that being said, you made a mistake. In this kind of situation you never list out what the charges are going to be for transporting water versus the actual cleaning of the property. That just gives the customer leverage to negotiate. You need to just give them a bottom line price. They do not need to know what your costs are when cleaning something. It is none of their business. If they insist on knowing, it is only so that htey can hammer you on your pricing. Most do not want to cost you money, but they sure do not want you to make a bundle off of them.

[CaroliProWash]

Water on new construction? In North Carolina? Not happening here Scott....we're in a drought! Builders can't even test the water lines in the houses unless they reclaim what comes out!

[FCPWLLC]

This the way I figure it:

Travel Time, two employees at $10 an hour, with Benefits, etc. 2.5 hours ~$75
Truck expense 1.5 hours @ 30 MPH ave. 45 miles, minimum ~$22.50
Lost Revenue @ $45 an hour, since if you were not doing this you would
be doing somethig else making money ~$67.50

Total cost for one tank of water (per trip) ~$165

That being said, if ti si new construction, there should be some water somewhere for you to tap into. Every new construction that I have seen has had at least one house in the vicinity tha had the water turned on, and usually they all do. If the SUperintendent doesn't want you to use the water, he is just being a jerk.
You need to remember that the AP guy ( I assume that is the guy in charge of invoicing) has one job, and that is to make the contractor money. Just like the Super has one job, to make the contractor money. If you want to think about it, you have one job, too. That is to make YOU money.
All that being said, you made a mistake. In this kind of situation you never list out what the charges are going to be for transporting water versus the actual cleaning of the property. That just gives the customer leverage to negotiate. You need to just give them a bottom line price. They do not need to know what your costs are when cleaning something. It is none of their business. If they insist on knowing, it is only so that htey can hammer you on your pricing. Most do not want to cost you money, but they sure do not want you to make a bundle off of them.

Good post. I say don't sweat one job and move on to the next PAYING customer.

[CaroliProWash]

We are all having to make new adjustments and concessions around here to keep business. Most of us with established contractors have pricing in place - this hauling water stuff is new to a LOT of people.

Those of you without these problems just consider yourself lucky at this time.

[1105]

Thanks for your input, but as caroliprowash said, you cant hook up to the city system without getting a thousand dollar fine or ticket. Contractors will not go for a tank of water costing as much as some of the houses. Also, with a purchase order system, your prices are entered into the system and spec'ed out for each job, so they do know your prices. You know what you will be paid before the houses are built at the time the permit to build is obtained and a PO is issued to you. So taking the total cost of the job and saying 165.00 more per house on top of that, its not gonna happen. You will price yourself out of business and you are in business to keep business.

FCPWLLC you said, "move on to the next PAYING customer". Well you just dont do that when "that paying customer" alone is putting 40 grand in your pocket a year. He is more than "just another paying customer" to me.

[Hottt Blaster]

What about well water from a smaller town? Are the wells dry also? Might be able to work somthing out with a private farmer or whatever.. Tom

[CaroliProWash]

Finding a water source is not the problem - there is water that can be obtained. The issue (topic of thread) is the cost of transporting the water. We are all making adjustments during the drought conditions here ..... which means added expense to an already very slow market.

The additional cost factor in this thread is the time & gas required to refill a tank to complete a job.

[Stevie]

If the problem is time and fuel cost, then maybe you should look to obtain your water closer to the job site. I dont know just an idea. I have been hit hard by this too. I have had to convert one of my recovery rigs to clean water. Now I take 2 trucks and trailers to jobs. I know this isnt possible for everyone, and yeah it cost more to do so. I had to raise prices to comply. It costs what it costs to do a job and you have to profit X amount of dollars to stay in buisness. I love what I do for a living, but I cant do it for nothing. Its not how much you make a year, Its how much it cost you to get it! So my point is, at what point is this job not profitable for me to do anymore?

Just my thoughts!!!!

Stevie
Superior Exteriors
Fleet Cleaning Services
Georgia, South Carolina, & North Carolina

[CaroliProWash]

We are all certainly having to alter the way we do business, some areas are far worse than others since each each county, municipality, town & city have their own regulations. It is difficult at best to keep up with the specific areas you service regularly, much less when going into an area where you may not work often.

The PWNC is working diligently on ways to assist contractors, either by connecting them with other contractors who can help with water delivery, encouraging job sharing in order to provide enough water in one trip to make the job feasible, finding alternative water sources that do not violate anyone else's rules.

We can still work, which is a blessing, and most of NC appears to be in recovery. With that said, we should all still absolutely practice the best forms of conservation in what we do, no matter what the water levels.

Celeste

[Hottt Blaster]

Celeste : Are you a staff person with this site or?? just curious?

[CaroliProWash]

Nope :) Just been here a while.

[DAFF]

Still having issues in NC. This is going tot be a good year for you guys, just figure out how to get water and move it around. The price is not the issue it is the capacity of your equipment. Addiing it will increase profits. Start looking for those smaller 3 ton trucks and yes go diesel. Anyone hauling over 5000lb 60% of the time must have one. Expecially with the price of fuel. Ya, Ya the price of diesel is higher but trust me it's the way to go. How often do you see a gas big truck???

I'm not totally familiar with the whole subject, but a smart buisiness person will ulter his buisiness plan to accomidate changes in local and federal policies.

DAFF

[LightningGene]

Might look into a 1 ton flat bed just to haul a 500 gallon tank of water around for the extra water needed.......

[CaroliProWash]

Several of the guys here in the Carolinas have made arrangements for unusual carrying capabilities :) While the only area still acting like we're criminals is Raleigh, the rest of the state is enforcing much better conservation methods such as homeowners not being able to do it themselves - they have to hire a pro :)

Daff, I'm starting to think that you're right - this is going to separate the wannabe's from the "real deal" companies. As the PWNC continues to make the point that pressure washers are careful with our water, use less than commonly believed and are more often than not, cleaning for purposes of health & public safety ANYWAY.....people will start understanding and the phones will ring again :) Spring has sprung!

[DAFF]

Celeste, how are you moving the water around?? How far to the nearest unrestricted watering hole?? What are the restrictions of pools and fill ups??? I've got some ideas!!!

DAFF

[CaroliProWash]

The largest part of our issues in the Carolinas is not the actual availability of water, it's the media screaming "no washing!" or the perception that what we do is wasteful and purposeless.

Reality is, many guys have the capabilities of hauling 300+ gallons to a house, which is (or should be) plenty of water to perform an average housewash. The companies that have not graduated to trailer mounted units or at least have a tank somewhere are the ones the most affected by local restrictions. The jobs that require more than a tank - therein lies a problem of what additional to charge. Property owners are not stupid - they watch the news too so everyone is painfully aware of the addition expense involved with leaving a site to fill up and return. One of our colleagues recently purchased an old fire truck (carries 1500+ gallons) and runs around servicing his crews. There are far more places that have water than don't. Raleigh is screwed up from the top, not from the water shortage. That is the area where it is the most difficult to find available water without having to drive 60+ miles one way to get it. Costs involved with such inconveniences include fuel and windshield time for labor - do it enough and your profits are GONE!

Pools, hot tubs, water features - all on the no-no list. If those folks have the $$ to have those "luxuries", they have the $$ to figure out how to use them, IMO :)

Nothing that is happening here is insurmountable, it's just a big - no make that HUGE PITA.

We'd love to hear your ideas though :)

Celeste

[DAFF]

Pools, hot tubs, water features - all on the no-no list. If those folks have the $$ to have those "luxuries", they have the $$ to figure out how to use them, IMO


I wish I was there, can you say cash in!!!!! So you are already heavily affiliated with the media so why can't you create your own buzz about why can we use water which is trucked in from a non restructed area for bulk usages. There are enough families who have lots of $$ to spen on thier pools / hot tubs and such. Remeber these are all luxuries like you said and if they have the $$ they will swim at any cost.

DAFF

[CaroliProWash]

Pools, hot tubs, water features - all on the no-no list. If those folks have the $$ to have those "luxuries", they have the $$ to figure out how to use them, IMO


I wish I was there, can you say cash in!!!!! So you are already heavily affiliated with the media so why can't you create your own buzz about why can we use water which is trucked in from a non restructed area for bulk usages. There are enough families who have lots of $$ to spen on thier pools / hot tubs and such. Remeber these are all luxuries like you said and if they have the $$ they will swim at any cost.

DAFF

HEY!!!!!! We did and do still get in front of the media (http://www.pwnc.org/news.html) - got TV & newspaper coverage of a PWNC meeting. We're doing a lot here just to let people know it's not illegal to WASH. We're also working with others, ie, nurseries to provide water to them. Now if someone who had the capabilities of hauling enough water to fill a pool....well there is a marketing tilt there, but not from a group standpoint. Hell, my own hottub takes more water than my tank will carry - which is why it's empty :(

[DAFF]

Think BIG.... Our large wash truch has a 2200-2500gal capacity. In your situation I would be looking for a day cab tractor and a 5000-6000 tanker trailer. Sure it might seem over kill and expensive, but the rewards are there. A typicial tractor $10-20k and trailer about 10-15k for some quality stuff. Realalistically you could recover these costs in 2-3 moths at $750-1000.00 per load. Heck if a customer will pay 175.00 for 600gal you should have a waiting list.

DAFF

[DAFF]

Plus this is only the tip of the iceburg. As the population densities in your region increase so will the demand for water. These swings of water shortages will become more frequent and severe as time goes on. Plus in the Hurricane zone of the south you can be of great use in the case of a natural disaster. Just make sure the tank is that of food grade stainless steel.

DAFF

[1105]

Celeste

I have been lucky and managed my routes pretty good only making one trip for the clear stuff per house. Except for the million dollar homes, they are taking three loads of water each, I give one tank per house and they pay for all other trips. I have also found that contractors are now installing wells for irrigation on some of these large houses...yep and I'm hooking up. The demand has been incredible, my phone is back ringing and I have picked up three new contractors just this week. This summer will be great I am sure. For the ones still standing in this drought because of politics and idiots, hold on there may be a bright light at the end of the tunnel. Based on what I am seeing, some of the people are starting to realize we have water in the ground and idiots in Raleigh, and are starting to call again spite the restrictions.

Thanks for all your help and help from the PWNC.

Jamie

[CaroliProWash]

Jamie (Check your email - I had another thought!)

I am glad to hear things are working out! We're getting an increased number of calls from the outer edges of our service area as well. I know if we keep with the proper marketing and continued pounding the point with the press we're all going to be fine!! PWNC rocks if I don't say so myself [wsmile]

Daff - things are just a bit different down here in the south - we have ROADS that won't handle that kind of weight - seriously. Also, those who will actually pay are few and far between. Strange southern mentality here :confused: Even if there were a few more that would, just the additional expense in order to get a few of those jobs doesn't pan out with the numbers over time - not for the majority of our residential companies.

Celeste

[DAFF]

Around here the cost of water is on the increase. It actually costs more to dispose of it than to purchase it!! (sewer charges) For us it is getting to the point of having the water trucked in is about the same cost as using your tap. This is because we can purchase water without the extra cost of disposal it work out in our favour. The typicial pool takes approx 10000 gal which works out to be about 600-700 dollars and 5-6trips to the water station. After all is said you are capable of making 40-60 dollars per hour proffit.