cleaning w/ low-pressure

[Jon Fife]

hey guys,

i mentioned this question a couple of months ago and never got a response, so maybe some more people will see it now and give me an answer.
I cannot figure out how you guys are cleaning decks with the low-pressures that you describe. i have tried everything. it does not matter if the deck i am cleaning has a stain to be stripped of if it is just weathered and gray, i have to use 3000psi. i am going to list my methods and if you see something in there that is different that what you do and you think it would make a difference, please say.

cold water, 3000 psi

when stripping, will use chemicals (stipex, sunbrite REMOVE, wolman deckstip, all at strong levels ( mainly used to strip superdeck, behr, etc)

on weathered decks have tried bleach, naoh, most cleaners,

try and keep dwell times 10-20 minutes (keeping them wet)

STILL requires high-psi, usually fairly close to wood (i'm getting really fast at sanding and buffing!!)

thanks in advance for responses, it is just that i read y'alls posts about deck stains 'falling off' and giving decks rinses at 800psi and i am getting jealous, cause i am blasting away every square inch and i feel like i am costing myself a lot of time and energy!!!

you guys take care and i hope you are making a lot of money!!

jon fife
nashville,TN
(615)837-3663

[Barry Loy]

Hi Jon,
One way to lower your pressure is to use a dual lance wand with a 'soap tip' on one side. The dual lance will allow you to 'dial down' the pressure on the 'soap' side, ( keeping the injector out of any cleaner ) Using the adjusting handle on the wand, you can adjust your pressure to any lower psi you need at that point.
Barry Loy

[Mike Hughes]

Jon,

The most I ever use is 1500 psi. Sometimes, on decks I am stripping, I can even smear the failing finish off with my boot. A garden hose could strip a deck like that. I sometimes use a dual lance wand and dial the pressure down even more.

Something must be wrong there........either chemicals too weak, or maybe the decks you are up against have been neglected for so long that you have to beat them to get them clean. I don't know. Keep trying!

[Jim Bilyeu]

Hi Jon,

I'm with you. We run our machines at 3000 psi. We control the pressure at the surface of the substrate ( not at the tip ) by maintaining a safe distance. If we need a little more pressure, we get a little closer. We try to stay at least 10/12 inches from the substrate to prevent doing any damage to the wood.

I have seen decks from coast to coast. I have seen decks done by "professional wood restoration companies" and I have seen decks done by "pressure washers". Belive me, there is a difference.

Wood restoration is one business where "customer satisfaction" has no bearing. Customers do not know the difference between a good job and a bad job, all they know is that it looks better than it did before.

Out here in the west, everybody wants the natural look, not the dark look you have back east. We have to make sure that the wood is clean because we can't hide it by applying a dark stain. The people out here even want the dye taken off the treated lumber on their decks, they just don't like the looks of it.

In closing Jon, if your getting your wood clean, keep doing what your doing.

For your weathered wood, try mixing your strip-x 5 or 6 parts water to 1 part industrial strip-x. See if that works for you.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

[Deck Works]

Are you really hitting it at 3000?...that would do way too much damage to the wood. Your probably running a fan tip that will cut it down to about 2000psi. I have 2 - 2100 psi machines and with the fan spray I would estimate the pressure at 1500 and even that can do damage on cedar.

Reduce your pressure - it will reduce your sanding time!

John

[Jon Fife]

good point John,

i am using a 40 degree tip with 3000 psi, usually about 6-8 inches off of the wood, so i assume that would decrease the contact pressure significantly. Mr. bilyeu, john, mike and barry--i appreciate y'all taking the time to answer my question. have a great rest of the week,

jon fife
nashville,TN
(615)837-3663

[Greg Rentschler]

It is all in the chemicals..... percarbonates, oxalic, and sodium hydroxide are the primary ingredients. We clean at around 1500 psi and strip around 800 (especially cedar). You have to get the dilution right and allow for proper dwell times. We RARELY use any type of bleach... only to brighten those 25 year old decks which REALLY need help. We wash everything with 25 degree tips on dual lance wands (must have in my opinion). A little more info on the cleaners and strippers would help to solve your problems. Dilutions , etc...?

[Jon Fife]

hi greg,

i have used wolmans at full strength....still high pressure.
sunbrite REMOVE at all recommended strengths.... high pressure

stripex and stripexL at 5:1, 3:1, 1:1


for cleaning, tryed bleach, 1gal to 1 gal of h2o.

other cleaners, all to manufacturers specs.

greg, could it be that it makes that much of a difference to use a 40 degree tip?? i talked to chris at sunbrite yesterday he says they can spray a bleach/soap/h2o cleaner on deck and literally rinse the rails. do you have that kind of success?? i have heard people say that they can clean an average deck (12x18, 2nd story, 15 stairs in about an hour. that would take me 3 hours, but i have to go up and down every spindle, etc. if you have any advice for me, please give, i'd appreciate it.
take care Greg,

jon fife
nashville,TN
(615)837-3663

[JR Wood]

3500 psi with a 5.5 tip which brings it down to about 2200 or so.4-8 inches above surface and I go over every square inch also.

[Deck Works]

I can't believe you guys use that much pressure!

I agree with Greg all in the chemicals. I have used Wohlmans stipper full strenghth and you can pretty much use just a garden hose to get it off. BTW, never let that stipper dry - its very hard to get off then.....

My standard cleaning agent is Pool Bleach, Spic and Span, and H2O - email me if you want the recipe. I buy Flood's cleaner/brightner as a nuetraliser as I have been unsuccessful in finding Oxalic Acid in anything smaller than 55gallons.

John

[Jim Bilyeu]

Jon,

How far are you from Belvidere TN. Send me your e-mail address.

Jim Bilyeu
Exterior Woodcare

[Jon Fife]

mr bilyeu,

my email is jfife81721@aol.com/(615)837-3663 days, (615)491-7325 nights........i will try and send you an email, but i've tried sending you some in the past it is gets returned to me for some reason. it may need updated on your website. i looked on the atlas and could not find a belvadere,TN----nothing really even similar. if it is in TN, it is within 3 hrs for me, we are right in the middle. have a good weekend,

jon fife

[Mike Hughes]

Jon,

Next time, leave your atlas on the shelf and pull up www.mapquest.com Belvidere, TN is 97 miles SouthEast of Nashville.

Mike

[Jon Fife]

mike,

(laughing), ya, i guess it would have been a lot easier to look on the 'net. any time i need directions i still pull out a map when all you have to do is type it in on yahoo and it will give you exact directions and distances. think i've been sniffing too much ready seal, fogging my thinking. thanks for the help, have a good weekend.

jon fife

[JR Wood]

A 3500 psi 4.5 gpm machine using a 5.5 tip 6 inches from the surface comes out to about 1800 psi hitting the deck.for a cedar deck I use a 6 or 6.5 nozzle.which brings it down to about 1400 psi or less.That's what my research has led me to conclude.I have very few problems with this setup.Maybe I am nuts but I still get the check with no complaints.

[Greg Rentschler]

jfife,


Send me your address and I'll send you a sample of our percarbonate based cleaner. Mix it to the stated specs and try it..... tell me what ya think. We have been using this blend for the past 2 years and it works MANY times better than wolmans or restore and similar products. We have it specially formulated through a local chemical company for us.

Greg - TimberSeal

[Glenn]

Jon,
One thing you didn't tell us was gpm. Your gpm is as, if not more, important than psi. One thing about psi, psi is measured inside the system and before the tip. After the water comes out of the tip it is no longer under pressure as it has been released. The farther the surface you are cleaning is away from the tip the lower the resulting effect will be. For example, you could clean a deck with 10,000 psi if you held the tip far enough away from the surface. You gpm also will effect your, as they say, cleaning units. So, a high gpm can lower your required psi.
I am searching for a formula that you can enter psi, fan degree, gpm, and distance from surface to give you psi effect at surface level. Hope this has helped at least a little. I use 1200 psi on decks @ 5 to 6 inches from the surface with 4 gpm. I have used 3000 psi just like you have and just held it farther away if it was a small deck area and I didn't want to go through the trouble of changing tips. Bottom line is use just enough to do the job and no more.
Glenn

[johny]

The very first deck i ever cleaned was my own,i used bleach and 3000 psi ,worked well like said above when maintain a safe distance.Now when using strippers the only way i seem to get it clean is if i turn the pressure down to 500 psi( i have a gauge on my gun) and get an inch from the surface ,works very well.When i turn it up,seems not to do crap,i guess cause i freak out too much and back off too far,just dont need no fuzzies.Maximum i ever use is 1000 psi,it really helps to have a gauge on my trigger gun,sometimes i have caught myself turning it up way too high,for some reason especcially around the railings.
Johny