Jon's Pictures of PaveClean demo

[Jon]

I will post before, during and after pictures. I will let the pictures talk for me and the others who saw the demo can post their replies as what they throught of it.

Before:

[Jon]

This is during the application.

[Jon]

This picture was taken 5 days after the demo.

[adam936]

Do you have a picture after the demo

[Jon]

This was taken when the demo was done.

[Jon]

This demo picture was taken at another location that is done every 3 month.

You can get an idea of how the parking space is done with this picture.

[Mike Hughes]

Jon, I merged your posts to put the pics all in one place!

I could not get them to be in perfect order......oh well.

[David Saulque]

I am lost for words. I would not sell the PW. Now, should I have made the trip from Sacramento?

David

[Dan Flynn]

Is it me, or is this a joke. I would be embarrassed to represent that result. I certainly wouldn't have allowed pictures to be taken.

Jon,

Tell me the finale picture is missing. If not those results resemble a conversation I had with Mr. Jennings via email.
Sarcastic and irragant. Funny the biggest attitudes produce the worst results. Reminds me of Lance.

For give me for the harsh words. But all the hype and this is 100 times worse than I thought it would be. I knew there was no way to blend all the different tones of concrete. But I thought it would at least cover up the spot.

Here's a better method. Hot water pressure wash, with a degreaser. Then to get fancy. Sprinkle a little concrete dust on the spot. It will look way better than that.


Thank you for sharing and taking the time to investigate this product Jon.

Please add your opinion!

[Mike Hughes]

The point you are all missing here, is that this is not supposed to be a quick fix, one time only product.

It is my understanding that the product is meant to work over an extended period of time, with multiple applications. It is absurd to think that you're going to sprinke it on there, and its going to make all of the oil disappear on the first application.

I dont think any of us here should be saying negative things about it until one of us does an extended test on this product to see if it really does what they say it does. I'm not volunteering......I'm too busy.

[JR Wood]

I'd probably be fired before the 10th application or whatever it takes.

Quote from Mike,
"It is absurd to think that you're going to sprinke it on there, and its going to make all of the oil disappear on the first application."
Mike from all the posts I have read,they made it sound like it was a miracle,that you could just sprinkle it on,and from the before and after pictures I have seen on other sites it is obvious that they were somewhat misleading.Anyway, if I was paying someone to clean my concrete and it looked like that when they were done I would be pretty mad.Most of my customers WANT a quick fix.

[charlie]

As I understand Pave Clean you will have to go back 10-14 days later and reapply Pave Clean because it keeps on working on the oil that is in the concrete. Also I was told not to think it would make the concrete look like new just help remove oil that is on the concrete. Remember that the proper way of cleaning the drive-thrus is to contain the water with the oil and properly dispose it. If you don't do this you will get a heck of a fine. To me Pave Clean is a alternative from getting into all the legal issues with powerwashing drive-thrus. Will have a demo of Pave Clean done for me and will judge it for my self. My $$ worth


Charlie

[Dan Flynn]

I have to get going. I will give my opinion when I get back from work. Regarding why I made what I feel are remarks that are merited.

Yes Mike I agree that it's absurd to think you sprinkle this product on and it will disappear. But that is how it's being marketed. It also states nowhere on their site it takes multiple applications over an extended period of time.

It's represented as a very simple single application, with incredible results, that is environmental safe. They show start to finish photo's. The first picture looking just like Jon's demo and the last looking like a brand new area. Stating just below it's that easy.

So yes I agree that if Jon did the test we should be cautions of our opinion. Especially if they are negative. But this was a professional demo by Pave Clean. I would expect the results to be consistent with the photos on their website. The only consistency I see is with the before picture.

The photos actually look worse after the demo. It looks like a big mess someone tried to cover up. Would you not be embarrassed to leave a job looking like that?

I think the main point is what John has stated, this look misleading to me. If you read and look at their website. Then do a search on all the boards and read the posts. I think it's clear that Jon's photos should look like the Pave Clean's training photos on their website.

Either the guy on the pave clean website wears the same clothing everyday. Or that's one application. If you look at the shadow in the demo photo's. They have not moved much. So that doesn't seem like an extended period of time for the results I see.

So was that an isolated situation. Or is that not the results they indicate you should get after one easy application?

Well why does Jon's demo look the way it does? I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way. Jon offered to get the demo and share the results with everyone. I'm just disappointed at the results. Considering what I have read, heard and the photo's I viewed.

Facts are facts negative or not!

Here is the link to their start to finish photos (http://www.paveclean.com/contractor_training.html)

After you look and read that page, and if anyone feels I am out of line with my opinion. I'm sorry!

[Walt Graner]

Funny stuff, reminds me of the "microbial" bug craze 5 years ago. What a bust. I go for the power wash, degreaser and portland cement sprinkle.

[Jon]

Ok guys let me say I do give credit to Jim for being honest, he did state that this product is NOT a cure all product. I know it is marketed as a cure all but by being honest that goes a long ways with me.

One thing I forget to mention is they make something to mix with the white to cause it to change color some, not really sure if the more you add the more black it gets but you can go from gray to black with this added in.

Yes you pay for that too but say you are doing a drive though that has gray concrete, mix it to come as close to that color as you can and it won't show as much.

This job was not colored concrete.

[Glenn]

I'm with Walt,
Doesn't the portland cement do the same thing. At least it has for me on the heavy oil spots. I usually spread some on and brush in with a broom for a more even application. Either way your not removing, just camoflaguing (msp?).

Thanks Jon for taking the time to research and share the results with us. I feel you are honest about the outcome as it is not all negative. It does look better, however, I agree with what Dan said as I feel we should expect better results after what we've heard about this product. Now I question the promotional pictures as they did look a little unbelievable.
Glenn

[JR Wood]

I agree with every single word dan has said.I went to the web site and read all the posts and the results that have been shown in this post is far different from all the hype and before and after pictures that are floating around.I have done many garage floors with COLD water and degreasers and have had a better result than what I see here.I would be ashamed of asking for payment to be honest.

[Andy Wheatley]

I don't see how he would, but did the Pave Clean Rep seem happy with the way the demo turned out?

I'm not familiar with Portland cement, once brushed in will it stay, and does the surface have to be dry before its brushed in?

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Hey guys LOng time :)

Well reading this post I figured I'd drop in my 2 cents worth too.

After looking at the before & after pics that have seen posted here I'm figuring that for Pavecleans demo he definitely did it in one day but probably used 1lb of product to 10sqft of surface remember this little disclaimer * coverage areas are based on averages only. Deeper stains, or coarser surface areas will increase the amount of product needed. So you could probably really lay that crap on & camouflage just about anything.

Here's My problems with Paveclean
1. I don't have ANY respect for Paul Jennings, after a little spat that took place on another Forum some time back I realized that he is just someone that I'd just assume not do business with. Any man that can spew out the way he did calling people names, calling people liars & what-not to a whole slew of potential Clients is just someone that I cannot trust, thus I cannot trust his product!

2. The Product pricing is INSANE! If you purchase it by the pound it's like (Not including shipping!) $16 for one lb & $98 for 20lb. Now do some math here. To buy one lb of this product you are paying an additional $11.40 ~v~ the 20lb bulk price That's 230% more. Now to me this just states RIP-OFF. Yes you always pay less for bulk, but this is ridiculous. The cost basis does not reflect this much difference in the smaller container re: packaging materials or labor. At best the product should sell for not more than $10 per pound. But should be at a "Honest" price of $7.50 per pound!

3. Pricing per Sqft. If you purchase the product by the 20lb package your cost is approx. $0.06 per sqft including shipping. 6 cents cost for just the materials. How much for labor? From what I've read & seen I'm guessin that the application time is close to the same as powerwashing so figure about 6cents persquare foot for labor (Which is only like $18.00 per drive through lane for an application which seems fairly intensive) Now you're lookin at a customer cost is 12cents persquare foot. That's pretty expensive & that's the cheapest it's gonna get (you can save a little more here if you purchase it in mega bulk, Buying $764 in one pop will save u 10% & $2700 can save you %20, however unless you are really using alot of this product this size order would probably not be conducive for most people.)

The above prices are based on Pavecleans statement that the average coverage area with the product is 120sqft per pound or 2200sqft per 20lb,, Then there is this disclaimer statement "they" make * coverage areas are based on averages only. Deeper stains, or coarser surface areas will increase the amount of product needed which says that that 120sqft could end up at 60sqft or worse thus propelling the material cost from 6cents to 12cents per sqft making it 16cents per sqft cost to the customer. It also creates concern for estimating. If worse needs more then you better have you estimate dead on or padded a pretty fair share incase more product is required.

4. I have never talked to Paul Jennings, I had asked questions re: the product before on the forums & his reply was to call. Well.. I figured that if i had to call to get those answers (that many had asked also with the same reply) then he was going to try & sell me, & if he needed to sell me then my concerns were legitimate & needed to be gotten around in order for me to buy the product. MY concerns were. Gum Removal, Wind problems Rain Problems & Tracking the product by vehicles onto seal-coated parking areas. Rain being a major concern since I can still powerwash in the rain. I live in FL ,, lots of rain, You either work in it or u may not work for several days at a time And Tracking being a large secondary concern since so many properties are getting the Seal-Coat applied. ( & if you don't know,, seal-coat, is a nice shiney "super black" surface coating applied to parking areas. You can see light discolorations from a mile away on them, if this product tracks off the applied area at all onto these surfaces it will look like HELL!)


As far as the environmental concerns. Check with your local municipality to see if you can discharge that water to a grassy area. This is allowed in every city that i work in in Florida & we have Zero discharge allowance to Storm Drains! According to my regulatory admins discharging the contaminated water to the Grassy areas allows the water to "Percolate thru the earth & cleanse prior to entering the aquifer, heh, & our aquifer is like 2ft :) Just FYI

To close.
I give the guy props for getting his product to market, marketing & setting up what he has, however given his attitude when conversing with him & the product cost I won't be in any hurry to try it! Frankly I just hate the guy! And after seeing Johns demo pics my feelings of the worthlessness of the product are reassured.

Myself I'm sticking with Hot Water & Degreaser where I can get up the gum, lighten the stains & hit the under canopys & the walls real quick to add that extra ouch & occasionally I'll use a little Portland Cement 1.29 40lb bag 400sqft coverage $0.003 perft material cost!

Have a nice day
Cody!

[Mike Hughes]

Cody,

Not to excuse the incident you were referring to, but I went to a PaveClean demo about a week after that whole thing went down.

Mr. Jennings himself attended the demo. He was a heck of a nice guy. Now, granted, he was trying to sell his product........but nonetheless, I still liked him.

My 2 cents.

[johny]

When i first looked at the pictures i felt exactly what Dan Flynn said.I figured i must be missing something here.I am not very critical so i didnt reply.Looks kind of like damping concrete mix over the stains to hide them and sweeping it up.I have seen worse concrete made look much better by just washing,cold water,no degreaser.Whats wrong here??Paying and charging that much for something costumers surely expact more than that

Johny

[David Saulque]

The industry that we are in points to the finished picture of what job we have just completed. With this type of product, we would be explaining why our finished product is plus or minus from the first start. The finish picture should sell the product-should not create more issues to overcome.

David

[Richard R.]

Hey Guys,

Looks like the proof is in the pudding. As bad as I would like to look on the positive side, I can't.
First off I would like to Thank Jon for spending the time and effort trying this product for the rest of us.
I even appreciate Mike standing up for what he believes in, but lets face it, there is an enormous amount of negativity in this product.
I tryed to look on the positive side, but after looking at the pictures and going to the web site that Dan provided from the company, I have to say the majority has a pretty full proof case.
As for the math?? What's up with that. I have to agree with Cody whole heartedly on that. I'm sorry but that's pretty unbelievable within itself.
$4.90 per lbs if I buy 20lbs and $16.00 per lbs otherwise. "Wow"

There is however one question that I have.
Wouldn't there be new oil spots to deal with by the time this chemical finally covered up the oil spots it originally set out to cover? If this is the case, this would be another mark that would effect my decision to use it over the conventional method of power washing.

I recently learned about a chemical (degreaser) that a lab technician swears will take up the stains left behind by the burnt carbon. He says that it will not only take up the grease, but will take up the stain as well. (How many times have we heard this before?)
I'm not sure I'm clear on the rules of this BB about revealing non supporting brand names, so I will try it first and if it truly works, I will get Dan's permission before I post it. If by chance it really works, (which I highly doubt), I will share the news by personal emails only.
I'm sure some of you guys have already tryed it before, but just in case you haven't, I will test it anyway.

Take Care
Richard R.

[Dan Flynn]

Another incredible claim!

Try it out and let us know either way. If it works great for everyone. If it doesn't, well I guess you will just be unveiling another person/company trying to sell a product on hype and not performance.

Get some before and after pictures, make sure you use the product as directed. Then let us all know.

If you feel like doing that, thanks in advance Richard :)

[charlie]

Thing about all this talk about pave clean is the people that don't think the product is any good didn't see a demo just some pictures. Saw a demo last week has its place in the market place. Granted I think the brochure is misleading but the demo has me convince it helps clean up oil just another thing to add to my arsenial. Another thing there are threads on other boards that I think you all should look about pave clean. Look at Rons board.



Charlie

[Richard R.]

Sorry Charlie,
I visited Ron's board and observed the pictures and I still can't see reasons for the hype. It seems to me that if it takes that much effort to look, study and examine a product this close, that should be a definite warning sign.
I live in an area where it is hard enough to get the Bank Drive Thrus, let alone charge enough to make it worth my time. If I were to get this type of results, using pave clean, two things would happen, I would go broke and my clients would run me off. The sad thing is, I wouldn't blame them.
The chemicals I use already cleans the grease up very good and there is very little stain left when I'm done. I sure don't want to leave powder behind or have people asking the Bank Tellers what the stuff is on the drive.
I don't know if anyone else uses what I use, but if you don't you should. It does an excellent job and it's some pretty strong stuff. I've had it to clean the stains too depending on how bad they are.
All you need to do is spray it on, let it dwell about 15 or 20 minutes and rinse it off with very hot water. I have used this with my cold water with 3500psi with good results and my 1000psi with 248 degrees and got even better results.
I can only imagine what it would do if I had a machine like the majority of you have, 3000psi with 210 degree heat.
I am working on trying another product at the present time, but if you use the products or chemicals I listed above, your going to find that it will be extremely hard to find anything that is better.
If anyone has a problem getting the chemicals, let me know and I will help you get it. Just don't spray it on painted surfaces, it will remove the paint too. Another thing you might find amazing is that it will clean the gum ghost too, but so will highly concentrated sodium hydroxide.
If you haven't ever used these products, you will probably stop looking any further because it is that good. Let me know if any of you are interested and I will help.
If anyone has tryed it and has not had good results, let me know. Most likely the company that you use is using the wrong recipe.

Take Care
Richard R.

[charlie]

Richard

Like I mentioned before I saw the demo in person. Liked the product on helping clean the oil. Never said that there were no other products out there that wouldn't clean up oil. I personnally don't like the idea of having to contain the water, to many liabilities on proper water disposal. Just another thing I can offer people with out worring about all the legal issues. Pave clean is spoce to help clean up oil not make your concrete look like knew. As I stated before the actual pictures are misleading. Saw the demo last week like what I saw. my $$$ worth.


Charlie

[Richard R.]

Charlie,
I think you may have misunderstood my post.
I'm not disputing anyones opinion.
I'm just stating mine and sharing some alternative ideas.
I totally understand those who are trying to avoid the legal issues.
I think it's good that the pave clean company has those that believe in their product. I would hope for the same if I had a product on the market.
My personal opinion is that Pave Clean seems to be a high tech kitty litter. I can only imagine the damage it would do to my business if every time someone called me to clean graffiti I showed up with a gallon of paint to paint over it instead of power washing it.
I also think this method is a good way to damage the integrity and reputation of many power wash businesses, but if that's what people want to do, it's their call.
It's obvious that the Pave Clean company may have used half a warehouse full of product when they did the commercial for their website. I think that is consumer deception and I would not support that kind of business no matter how nice their sales person may be.
Please understand that this is not directed or intended to offend anyone, I'm just exercising my opinion like everyone else.
Would I change my mind if I would have seen the demo like others have, Maybe, but I doubt it. The pictures on Ron's site and the pictures on pave clean's web site sends a very clear picture to me.
It reminds me of an old Power Washers saying. How Clean is Clean and How clean do you want it? In this case the question is: do you want me to clean it , cover it or soak it up.

No Disrespect to Anyone
Richard R

[Mike Hughes]

The following is a post by Cody:

Hey Charlie,,

1. No offense here d00d,,, just wanted to clarify something. You keep saying how well Pavecrete "cleans" YOU really ought to start saying how well Pavecrete "hides" this will better describe the product.

1a. I would love to see someone post an after 2weeks picture. I would guess that it may look like hell. Figure a couple leaky ole jalopies driving over it a few times leaking our Radiator fluid, oil, tranny fluid, Then toss on a few cokes, a couple cups of coffee, a few packs of bubble Yum, SOme fries, an old diaper, some cigeratte nicotene stains & a bunch of lung biscuits & I'd bet that Pavecrete would be real attractive. This is yet another thing I think many people over look when looking at this product. If that Pavecrete came to one of my jobs & made it look like the one in the demo, It would look ten times as bad in a week since all the staining materials would SHINE thru. Hell it'd probably piss my customers off in the long run. The nice thing about Concrete is that it really does do a fine job of hiding stuff like that, yes it gets bad but toss all that stuff that you wash up onto a painted Garage floor & what would it look like?

2. I saw the pics on ROns board (I stumbled there on accident by following a Link on another board.) Those Before & after shots Sucked too! I saw he had made a comment like " this has it's place" what is he getting a commission now or maybe he's trying to get Pavecrete to advertise on his site? When you see that Pavecrete banner on his Ron's forums You'll know where his oponion came from eh!

[Mike Hughes]

Post from Jon:


Now why not let things be, first off I was the one who got the Pave Clean demo going and Ron took the time to drive up here to see it.

I also spent enough time with him to say he is no different then the rest of us, other then when he talks I know I am not deaf, his voice BOOMS out.

Ok that aside to understand Pave Clean you need to understand that they do not claim it is a cure all, only a tool that helps and it does not hide, it dries up the oil and you sweep up the stuff to dispose of. Also it takes sometimes two treatments before better results show up.

No I am not sold on it but will be doing the same test area a few times so I can see if it gets better or stays the same. Mike Hughes also wants to know that so it is worth doing, no biggie with time as it is close to my home.

[Dan Flynn]

Jon,

Here's the problem I see. Like it or not if they would have said even one word you did. Maybe it would have been accepted and receive better from most.

You know what?

Since these pictures came out, I hear all of a sudden this product is not a cure all, it's only an absorbent, just another tool in the box, mainly an alternative to pressure washing for environmental reasons and so on.

If this product was presented from the beginning as all the above. I think it would have been received with more of an open mind as some say. I am sure it has great absorbent qualities.

But the bottom line is. It was present as if it was the cure all, and still is on there site.

Here are some things from their site.

All driveways and pavement, whether built with concrete or asphalt, have one thing in common. Sooner or later they will become blemished with grease, oil, transmission or brake fluids, or all sorts of unsightly stains. (See picture on left).
Pave-Clean is the solution to all of these problems. With
Pave-Clean, you can clean up oil stains, grease stains, and transmission and brake fluids using NO WATER! Pave-Clean is environmentally safe, incredibly easy to use, and produces results that you can see immediately! (See picture on right) What are they saying here?

If the real world demo results don't look like the picture they refer to on the right. Why are we being referred to it? Shouldn't a more consistent result, be the photo we're referred too. If this statement and the referred photo doesn't give you the impression that this product is a cure all. Then again I apologize.

Right below the photos it has this statement (*above images are not retouched or altered in any way)

Again giving me the impression these incredible before and after pictures are the results I should expect. Above that it says don't be fooled by imitations.

Why allow Your Customers and Neighbors to see messy, unsafe concrete? What Does This Mean?

I agree with the above statement, and if the results looked like your photos I think a lot of others would agree as well. But instead of a black greasy mess, we now have a black greasy mess with a hazy white hue.

I think my neighbors would still be angry.

With Pave-Clean you can eliminate unsightly stains and your home or business will look its very best without emptying your wallet! What Does This Mean?

I guess this statement with the photos doesn't indicate that this is a cure all product either?


Pave-Clean offers many advantages to conventional pavement cleaning. The results speak for themselves.

So, yes if the results look like the photo on pave clean's site. And NO if they look like the photos we now have seen from the demo. Also the 5 day after is the best. If a parking lane I cleaned looked like that 5 days later. I know I would get a call and the owner would say. I see a bill on my desk! But did you even come???? AHhhhhhhh YYYYaaaa I even used a new product called Pave Clean! (It’s says on their website in the FAQ section, that it's an excellent REPLACMENT to the traditional pressure washing techniques. Don't you like it? As I said I think people have a legitimate reason to the reaction we all have seen in these posts

Pave Clean is fast (most contractors report over 50% saving in labor time), it provides a better result [What Does This Mean[/b]

I suppose the sentence above means the pave clean is not the cure all and is only another tool in the box??????

Ok this one is good

Pave-Clean has been in the commercial market for years and is fast becoming the only answer for both commercial and home-owners' needs. Pave-Clean meets all EPA standards and will provide you with safe, effective and consistent results every time. Not convinced yet? View actual results for yourself with the following before/after pictures as well as testimonials from actual clients. What does this mean


Here is another statement indicating that this is only another tool and is not the cure all. Since you can't copy photos from there site. Here is the link to 3 very consistent results that are not very consistent with the demos.


Click here to see what you should expect from Pave Clean (as they say consistent results every time. What happen to the time at the demo????????? (http://www.paveclean.com/beforeafter.html)

Ok I know I sound sarcastic, but shouldn't I be?????

I feel that Pave Clean's website is very deceptive to say the least. I also feel that it is being marketed as a replacement to pressure washing and a cure all for unsightly oil and similar stains.

With an incredibly consistent result that looks just like new concrete, and we all should expect that result every time. There site indicated that this product will eliminate the stain in one easy application every time. Everything your read in this post is from their site.

Now that this wasn't all crack up to be what we thought. All I hear is this is an absorbent, not a cure all, just another tool in the box and it take several applications.

Doesn't say any of the three statements above, anywhere on thier website that I can see. Not only does it not say that on the site. It says all of the above instead (JUST THE OPPOSIT). The few comments you just stated Jon and many others stated. Came after the demo, which means that’s what they told you then. Well can someone explain their web site and comments on other bbs? Again if what you say Jon is how they said it. I think everyone could see that this product could be a tool some way or another. But They DIDN”T AND STILL DON”T!

I think that the contractors from the demo are saying one thing and pave clean web site and posts from other bbs are say just the opposite. What I don’t understand is why isn’t what I said above and what others have said being recognized. It’s plain to see. Instead a company that in my mind is marketing a product in a deceptive manner and as an eliminating stain cure-all. But people are defending them and saying they never said the above. When they have and still are. I would think most people would be angry. Not from the demo results but from the false claims.

I just don’t get it and can’t understand why when the facts are stated people get a little defensive instead of concerned about the deception.

Just my opinion, But I would like for anyone who might have the answer to provide them or even an opinion.

Why is it, when others including me give an opinion that isn’t exactly desirable in pave clean’s favor; considered bashing or negative. When they are only the facts that are provable. Should we just ignore this? I don’t think that’s what we should do. And yes I would drop it if there wasn’t a reason to bring it back up.

Hey I wish pave clean was a cure-all and to be honest I would accept it for what it is if it was promoted as something that it’s not.

[adam936]

I agree with Dan but there is something I don’t understand. This product is an absorbent. The particles are put down it absorbs the contaminants such as oil and ect. When it rains the absorbent is obviously washed away into the storm sewers with the contaminants it absorbed. How is this product environmentally friendly. It just seems like it makes it easier for new contaminants to be washed away by the rain.

[Richard R.]

The thing I don't understand is if you apply a white substance on the concrete, wouldn't it make the next oil spill look a little worse than a spill on normal concrete?

Am I the only one who views this product as a glorified kitty litter? Do other Power Washers carry kitty litter or other types of absorbents in their arsenol?
Is their only a few who see this company's web site as consumer deception?

Just Curious.

Rcihard R.

[charlie]

We have gone on and on about this product. Go see a demo and judge it for your self.

Charlie

[Dan S]

well Charlie !!!!!!!! that is what this bb and all the other ones is all about.......either "debate" or just "shooting the bull" we all have a option to (view and read).....

I think too many of us are so quick to say something; that we forget why this bb is here .... to help others out.. and if talking about a product and getting all info. possible .. is not your bag then please dont click on it..........

I for one look forward to reading all info.... as a matter of fact i would rether read it here then to have a demo... this way i can read at my pleasure and not worry about trying to make an appointment..................

[charlie]

Well Dan

I figured on how to disable the notification on this subject. Don't judge this product or any other product by what other peoples say , sometimes you have to be open minded on things to get ahead.

Charlie

[Dan Flynn]

Charlie,

Go to your user cp and you can unsubscribe from it. As far as your other posts. I don't feel a demo will change the fact the pictures look like crap. A picture is worth a thousand words and one demo. Plus the fact they mislead on their web site.

What's your take on that? Let's pretend this product is the best thing that hit the planet. I still wouldn't buy it If I was mislead.
Please fill me in on what you think about that. I can see your point regarding seeing it for yourself. Even though I have seen enough. I still see your point.

[charlie]

Dan
I have experienced in my other business where people will say that they don't like a certain product and found out that they were misinformed, so when I see something that I can fit into my business I try to contact a person that can answers my questions. As I stated before I feel the product was mislead on the website. So when I sell the service I will not use there brochures only pictures that I have taken. I do this with my other services and it works fine. Honesty is the best policy I Agree. We might not agree on this product, but I do respect your opion. Have a nice day.


Charlie

[Richard R.]

Charlie,
This issue reminds me of the basic power washers question. How clean is clean?
I think we are in agreement that each of us have a totally different opinion about this product and other issues on this board, which leads me to believe we also have a different opinion as to what is "Clean" out in the field.
This product seems to employ folks that strongly support it's purpose as much as those who oppose it. I can't help but wonder if there is something I'm over looking.

In your post, you said. "So when I sell the service I will not use their brochures only pictures that I have taken. I do this with my other services and it works fine. "
I know there is nothing in it for you, but if you ever get time and it's not an inconvenience, would it be possibles to post the pictures that you will be showing your customers and let us in on there positive and negative feedback.

I would like to be opened minded, but it is hard to do with the current pictures I've seen here on this board, along with the obvious misleading web site info that we all agree too.

Thanks and Take Care,
Richard R.

[charlie]

Richard

I will post them, but it won't be till early spring, see I take a sebadicle in the winter months. I don't have the luxery on working for more then 7 months due to our weather.

Sincerly

Charlie in Wi.

[Richard R.]

Thanks Charlie,
That will be fine.
I hope your not going to Israel during your Sabbatical.
It sure is dangerous over there.

May GOD be with you.

Richard R

[charlie]

Thank you may you and you family have a Merry Xmas.


Charlie

[Mike Hughes]

I think I have answers for two questions that were brought up:

1) They claim the product is not only an absorbant, but also an adsorbant, or whatever that's called.......meaning, once it soaks up the oil, it doesnt let it go.

2) On the contrary, if the pavement is treated with PaveClean, and a car leaks on it, the paveclean that is left over on the pavement will help suck up the oil and prevent further staining. A regularly treated parking spot or whatever should be more resistent to staining as time goes on...........I think.

[Richard R.]

Mike,
Are they claiming that too? :)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Richard R.

[Jon]

Look back here in about 2 week, I am going to use the sample Jim gave me and do the same spot again, take my before and after pictures then go back in 10 days and do it again also with before and after pictures.

That might give us a tiny bit of a better idea, also this being a drive though dairy it gets all the cars that drip drip drip oil. High school right across the street, need I say more!

I think Mike H. mentioned something about a better idea of doing the same job a few times before we judge it, again it is not a cure all, only a tool.

That is why for all intent and purposes I cannot and will not knock this product, there is a place for it in our business, now if only the cost was in our pocket book I think a lot of us would try it a few times.

Oh by the way, did you see the ad for a like product on D-E-L-C-O'S board?

[billymac]

How do I find the Board that this Ron Guys owns? very interesting reading about this and no one has listed the link to this site so others can judge for themselves. Is this site that restrictive?

Dont e-mail me the link, if you cant post it here I would not want to particiapate on this forum.

Just wanted to say i've enjoyed reading the post from Bigboy, Mike H, Scott Stone and many others that are professionals in this industry, this BBS better not loose these guys, they will be in real trouble. :p

[Dan Flynn]

I want everyone to read this post and this one http://www.powerwashnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3620&pagenumber=2 from billy.

This is Ron. I know from his ip which is one of many he has and he's so smart he used the same password for this account as he did for his many others on the bbs. He also so smart the only 2 posts he has under billymac knocks this bbs, praises his pave clean friends and begs for his address to be posted. This reminds me of the videos you see. The dumbest criminals :)

If this isn't enough proof he is a conniving strange person. I stand corrected. This has been buried for a few weeks. I guess he's desperate. So regardless if I was quick enough to catch this crap or not. It's strange, deceiving and dirty. How come no other bbs owners act like this goofball? What is wrong with you Ron?

Yes you win again. You lured me in for a comment. But I won't let this stuff go. I almost forgot about your antics. Thanks just what I needed, you weird games.

Go away. You would think with your bbs and your job. It would consume enough of your time. If you want members. Scavenge the other bbs like you have and change your ways. You’re like a time bomb.

Your self-destruction is only a matter of time. But do me a favor and do it elsewhere. This has got to stop Ron.

[B.E YOUNG Sr,]

Looks to me like I could have mimicked those results with a heavy duty cat liter or floor sweep. I wouldn't have been pleased with those results.