Mortar Tags removal not turbo nozzle destruction

I posted this on the brickmaster one, but was afraid that no one would read it.

Hey all, I read through the posts and all were very informative and had very good information. I feel though that I should inform you of one small detail that you left out or maybe are nor aware of with the use of a turbo nozzle.
When brick is layed the mortar joint is then tooled. The tooling is done to bring the "CREAM" or moisture to the top of the mortar joint, thus
making a weather tight seal. Though a turbo nozzle nozzle may do the job visually and it may seem you got the job done you have actually just ruined the tooling. If you take off the "CREAM", the joint is no longer weather tight and now is subseptable to weather and will break down easily. If you talk to the pro's (bricklayers) they suggest chemicals and lower pressure. Closer to what was discribed by Richard. I dont want to make those that say different feel like they are doing it wrong, I just feel that an explanation of why it isn't the correct method was appropriate. We went to the World of Concrete this year and there they had a lesson on proper cleaning of mortar tags and never once was a rotating or turbo nozzle ever mentioned. In fact you can actually destroy the mortor joint and the face of the brick causing interior seepage of water during horizontal rain.
Now there is a lot of sceptisism also on the use of certain acid because of there etching affect on the "CREAM" The best people to talk to on this subject is the manufacturers of the brick and the manufacturers of the mortar. As with everything, going to school on someone elses property is a costly test. By using that turbo nozzle you could actually cause efflorescence one of the very things you want to eliminate. Belive me or not but you owe it to yourself to ask the pros before you do this again.

Hope this makes this a little more clear on why.

Rob

hey im sorry Rob but i dont agree with everything you say .. maybe im dumb or uneducated. i have done several BIG brick jobs with a turbo and i will never use acid or worry about taping off..sometimes when you ( we ) talk to an " educated " fellow. they tell us what they think is sound but is it true? they dont go out and do a job.. and if they do then they need to try a turbo..i have 3 - 4 jobs to do this summer and im a TURBO MAN.. keep in mind Rob when you do
( if ) you do a job with a turbo we must use common since dont hold your turbo on the joint as a matter of fact; when done right you can avoid the joints if nothing else you can go over them lightly by either turning your pressure down by using the wand or stand back somewhat.. if you neverd tried it you are missing a great way to get the job done.. my hat goes off to you for getting as much info as you did .. you did well with your research but sometimes it's the uneducated man that is not the dummy ( if you will )

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have a great day and GOD bless!!!!!

oops i forgot something whan you are done turbo-ing it you can seal it with a good sealer and charge accordingly . they make some great sealers and most of them will last for a couple years. and you can spray alot of area .using the right equipment...fast... KEEP in mind what you did Rob was the best to do you checked all the pros and cons on this ... and as far as im concered thats what's great about this board. even though we get advise from here it is still our judgement to deside if it is a sound way to do it or not.. but i still will use the big T ..it's like im good @ it or something and i keep pretty busy .......

Dan,
I'm glad you are happy with the Turbo nozzle. Some say if the customer isn't B_t_hin than dont worry.
I like to research all before I do it, because that allows me to have answers that a masonary contractor may have for me before he allows me to do or bid on the 10,000 to 30,000 job. Now I'll be honest with you, I have done this type of work a lot more when I was a kid then now. When I was a kid my 2 uncles and my grandpa would lay the brick while my cousin and I would haul them for them. Then when there job was done we would clean them. Back then it was strong acid, a lot of scrubbing and rinsing. The biggest thing was keeping on top of it, as the sooner it starts to harden the harder it was to get off. This way is a real knuckle breaker and definatly NO FUN!!!! With todays technology there are now chemicals that you can spray on at up to 300 sq. ft. and clean off with out the use of a brush. This allows one man to do up to 3000 sq. ft. per day by themself. I know you are not doing that with a turbo nozzle. I agree that a turbo nozzle is great and on lots of areas in the pressure washing field the turbo nozzle is invaluable. I once again want to bring up the "CREAM" (so to speak). You mentioned the fact that you can seal the brick and mortar after you are done and that is true, but have you ever felt the joints after you are done? They probably feel gritty and sandy right? If the CREAM is present it will feel smooth. If you seal the brink and joint that is smooth -vs- the joint that is rough you will find that the sealer will last 5 to 10 times longer than the joint that is rough and the CREAM is destroyed. Two other things and then I'll quit all this info, 1) efflorenscence 2) Lime Putty chemicals remove them correctly a turbo nozzle will not.

The one great thing that we have on our side is knowledge, right now you are sitting in front of the biggest amout of information you will ever know and it grows and grows daily. (Not me, silly) your computer. You have an advantage that I and a lot of others only wish that they had when they started there business. What is it? It is the ability to talk to others that may have answers to questions that you want or need from a profession that you are in. That is great. To be honest, I talked a lot on another site about the fact that we were a unoticed organisation, but see that is not true. Union boys in construction are slamming cold ones right now and we are here helping each other and some of our own compitition to grow and aspire to be better than the guys were 5 or 10 years ago. I would of died for the info we get from these boards, I almost quit this biz 10-20 times because it is hard to be self employed and not have answers to questions that we need. If you notice, you see a new name and then 4 months later you see the same name posting there NEW equipment for sale on one of the boards. Sad but its true not all are deemed equal when it comes to business and the saying, "Only the Strong survive" may be the truest statement you ever heard when it comes to business. Well just a thought. Each of us will have to find our nitch and when we do, it will be hard to change it. I wish all of you nothing but the best and I'm alway happy to help.

Rob

Hey Dan, What type do you use, and why do you like it? How well has it held up? Do you replace or rebuild.

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Dan Flynn
Flynn Service Pro
www.powerwash.net
708/715-4206

Originally posted by Dan S:
oops i forgot something whan you are done turbo-ing it you can seal it with a good sealer and charge accordingly . they make some great sealers and most of them will last for a couple years. and you can spray alot of area .using the right equipment...fast... KEEP in mind what you did Rob was the best to do you checked all the pros and cons on this ... and as far as im concered thats what's great about this board. even though we get advise from here it is still our judgement to deside if it is a sound way to do it or not.. but i still will use the big T ..it's like im good @ it or something and i keep pretty busy .......

Click to expand...

Hey all;
first this is said with no disrespect meant to any one, with that said it doesnt sound like youve cleaned sandy faced brich or textured brick before. because if you have you would be paying for a new brick wall. If you were to clean any type of heavily sanded brick with a turbo nozzle the nozzle would leave cut makes all across the face of the brick and it would be ruined. There are several types of brick and for that matter several types of mortar that is used out there, and the turbo nozzle in fact does damage the brick, next time you clean a Normal brick (color through the body) red brick look very close and you'll notice that it takes some of the brick with it, maybe not much but it does damage the brick. as for myself I try to do the best possible job I can, and if it means using low, low pressure and speacial detergents made just for brick cleaning thats what I do, and I dont mean muratic acid at a 1 to 10 ratio,primarily. I think my customers are worth educating and explaning to them how to keep there investment looking and performing like it was meant to. Thats just the way I feel about it, if its worth doing its worth giving it everything Ive got.
just my opinion :^)
Richard

Richard,
Great post! I think you explained it well, its hard to tell what is best but I definatly feel that learning more about the brick and the brick manufacturers is key to sucess and you couldn't be more right about educating your customers so they understand what they are paying for. I know a bunch of old Italians that pretty much run this kind of work in New York and they use safe chemicals and a brush and they charge accordinly. The hardest part of cleaning brick is the first few rows because they are the starters and they get a little more sloppy than the rest once ytou get past that its easy. Thanks for the post.

Rob