"A PWNA conversation"for members and non members

[MR ALAN]

This is probably the ONLY reason I'd be interested in joining...Of course, who knows if I'd get the same type of results.

You just never know. It's a gamble that is worth taking though. I am a Chamber of Commerce Member and for the $300. a year, the only thing I get is calls from others trying to get me to buy their stuff, or sign up for something.

In todays technology driven world, people are less likely to grab the old fashioned yellow pages and look for something. They would rather just surf the net from work and find what they need. The more ways that you can get your name out there, the better & search engines is a mighty good way.

I have had 2 large companies that found me through the PWNA. I have steady work from them, so even if I never get another call because of PWNA, it has already served me well. Go to pwna.org and click on "PWNA Members/ Resources" and see who in your area is on this list. Both Members and Certified Washers.

 

[Mike Gwas]

How is the food at these conventions ? They sure get the pot stirring on the bbs !!!!

 

[Henry Bockman]

I'm currently a PWNA member and have been a member for about 3 years now. My company is full time and we offer other services besides just power washing.
I'm also a member of other trade organizations for services we provide.
I've only recieved one direct job from PWNA but I do advertise that I'm a member and that I'm a certified wood contractor from PWNA. Honestly, I didn't learn much that I didn't allready know in the class since I've been doing this for so long but I still think the few things I did pick up were worth the money I paid for the class. The class was mainly for newbies into deck cleaning and I do know that they learned a WHOLE lot from everette.
I also want to say that I respect Everette and his whole certification class he gave because the entire weekend I was there he never once mentioned any of his products or pushed any brand of equipment or chemical. He was asked numerous times about it also during class and afterwards but he definetly did not push anyone's products.

I do believe that we get more of our bids due to being involved in PWNA and having the certifications from them and other organizations. I'm also a firm believer in giving back to my communities and doing things right the first time. That's why I decided to take the certification program. I've been power washing for over 15 years now and we currently have over 10,000 clients.

I do not sell any products nor am I interested in doing so.
I have volunteered to be on several committees and I've also applied to be a board member and will continue to do so until I make it.

I'm not going to sit here and glorify the PWNA or any other organization, I believe they do have some problems and issues and I hope they can be worked out and I'm trying to get more involved to make it happen. I've always believed that if you don't like something trying to make it better is much more effective than complaining about it and not doing anything.

I've been a member of many bbs' over the years and I've enjoyed reading about what other people think and do. But lets face it, sometimes they should be called bs boards..lol We all have opinions about how things work and believe me, I've had the same thoughts and concerns about what PWNA is about myself. I decided to join and check it out a bit and see for myself if I think it's worth it or not. Three years later I still think it's worth the money it costs to join even if I don't get a whole lot out of it.
I've seen docs comments here and I've met him and talked to him on the phone quite a few times. I've also met mike hinderliter, Everette and having gotten to know them for a bit I have to say that I believe they truly do have honorable intentions for PWNA and it's members. I do agree that many of the board members sell products and I think there should be more just cleaning contractors on the board instead of people that sell products but the problem is. If no regular cleaning guys like us try to get on the board it's not going to happen. I'm not going to tell anyone that their opinions about PWNA are wrong but I also won't say they are correct I'd just say keep an eye on it and see what happens. It won't cost you anything to watch and see how well it works but to bash it when you haven't taken the time or money to join to find out for yourself doesn't sound quite right. Onecall, as a matter of fact you have gotten work from PWNA at one point because I've referred a few jobs to you myself since were both in Maryland so it can't be all that bad for you.. By the way, they also told me that you did an outstanding job.

If anyone has any questions email me or give me a call sometime.

Henry Bockman
www.Henryshousework.com
Home 301-353-9234
Cell 240-274-0300
henryshousework@comcast.net

 

[Mike Hughes]

Here's a suggestion for PWNA. Purify the board of directors by removing everyone who has a vested interest in selling merchandise, products or services to the rank and file. That would leave Clean country John, Mike Hughes and a couple of more. Make it an organization for power washers run by power washers, not retailers looking for a power base to reach out from. Put the merchants in their own category - not directors. Let them flog their wares at the conventions - which would level the playing field for all the merchants and make it an organization of cleaners for cleaners. Doc and his grease collectors, etc. would have to remove themselves.

There actually is a limit in the bylaws of the PWNA as to how many board members are allowed to be distributors, etc. There are many more people on the Board of Directors that don't distribute/manufacture then you think.

There are two ways to look at everything. Having distributors involved in the running of the organization is not a bad thing. If they had sole power, that would be no good. However, the bylaws create a system of checks and balances..........and no one group of people overpower another.

Johnny, you seem to devote a lot of effort to discussing the PWNA. Some of it is very accurate, and some is completely off base. Why don't you join us instead of working against us? Step up and volunteer............join a committee.............make a difference. The PWNA is not perfect, but improvement will never happen if everyone took the hands off approach.

You seem like a very sharp guy, and I'm sure you have a lot to offer. The PWNA is here for the benefit of our industry as a whole. It is basically the only voice we have. If you don't like the way it is, step up and do something about it instead of sitting back and pointing it out. Your input will go much farther that way, and the industry will benefit from it.

We all need to step up and take Power Washing as a profession to the next level. The vehicle to do that is the PWNA. All aboard?

 

[oneness]

There actually is a limit in the bylaws of the PWNA as to how many board members are allowed to be distributors, etc. There are many more people on the Board of Directors that don't distribute/manufacture then you think.

How many? How big is this board?

The PWNA is here for the benefit of our industry as a whole. It is basically the only voice we have.

Voice for what? What can/has the PWNA said for me that I can't say myself?

We all need to step up and take Power Washing as a profession to the next level. The vehicle to do that is the PWNA. All aboard?

I agree that the image of the industry needs to improve. What is the PWNA doing to cause people in my area, or nationwide, to take us more seriously? I'm just no convinced that the PWNA IS that vehicle. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I have yet to see any real benefit to myself in joining. I'm not anti-PWNA, but I'm not pro-PWNA either.

 

[johnny]

Darn, I just had an awakening..Nobody cares about PWNA, except 3 board members plus a few members. Nonetheless, I want to say thanks to Mike Hughes for the kind words. To quote him, "Johnny, ........PWNA. Some of it is very accurate, and some is completely off base." Mike consider this, Most of it is very accurate and on target, I threw in a few zingers for fun. Anyway, I think they should make you and John Clean Country the main guys, get rid of the rest, sadly I believe your board days are numbered unless you can convince the power brokers you mean business.

Anyway, like I say, very few out here give a rat's behind as much as you, John and Henry. This post possibly generates more talk than pwna deserves.

Save your money-invest in hose.

 

[oneness]

Darn, I just had an awakening..Nobody cares about PWNA, except 3 board members plus a few members.

Why are you so anti-PWNA? What has the organization done to you? I can understand if you don't want to join, for whatever reasons, but why go out of your way to run it down?

I may not see a need for myself to join, but I certainly have respect for those who give their time. Sure, some are distributors, but what's wrong with that? I've never read or heard of anyone being required to buy supplies from a PWNA distributor, whether they be a board member or not.

Take Everett for example...I've ready a hell of a lot of posts from him giving a whole lot of advice and guidance to others. I've never read in any of those posts where he pushes anything he sells. Hell, I didn't even know he was a distributor until I read a post in this thread a couple days ago. I think the man give a lot to the industry, and doesn't expect anything in return except a little respect. That's something everyone deserves until they give a reason otherwise.

There seems to a good bit of hatred coming from you for the PWNA, and I don't get it.

 

[johnny]

Ouch,

Mike I think it all depends on the mood a person is in when reading these posts. They can easily be misinterpreted on a bad day. However, I don't hate
pwna nor it's members. What "bothers" me is that the pwna charges for a membership & charges for it's services and then holds an annual convention to encourage members to spend more moneys, when the members would be better off to run their businesses, read these BBS's, take business courses and ask questions. People like Everett and many others answer questions willingly, not because he's a member of pwna but because he's Everett. I am suggesting that there is a middle man (pwna) that stands in the way that serves no purpose.

 

[Henry Bockman]

Hey johnny,

No disrespect to this board or it's members because I really think PWN has a lot to offer.
but, what makes you think that many of the over 450 members of PWNA come to this board, read this topic and your comments with the constant slams and decide that they want to take a vast amount of time just to give their opinion and be slammed for it?

From your other posts I see that you have a lot of experiance in power washing and you may make more than all of us combined each year but why bash the PWNA when you have never been a member to find out more about it. Never checked into it extensivly yourself. Or tried to make a difference?

If 450 people believe something works or believe in something enough who is one person or even 25 people to say that they are all wrong?
Maybe everyone should reserve their judgement until they have checked into it themselves and come to their own opinion.

Lets compare it to the X-jet If you think it's no good that's fine your entitled to your opinion maybe it won't work for you personally. I'm willing to bet that almost anyone on this board that does house washing has one on their rigs though. They probably thought the same thing I did when I first saw one, yeh right. It's really going to work that good! Now I have three of them.

However, to bust on an organization and it's members with no personal experiance, That just doesn't make sense.

 

[Larry L.]

..Lets compare it to the X-jet If you think it's no good that's fine your entitled to your opinion maybe it won't work for you ""personally.""

Sometimes its not wise to compare a metal object to get a point across,why not compare it to the fan spray nozzles b/c everybody needs those."personally my x-jet is rusted over laying in the bottom of my tool box.Not counting all the other boards,This board alone has over 3,500 members which a few of those are pwna members.When you have powerwashers in the 1000's and 1000's the 450 pwna members seems like a water drop in the bucket.

Not going to get into a you need to join or not join......like you say"personally".

Did you hear EPA is losing 600(m) next year? Did the pwna have a voice in that cut?

 

[oneness]

Ouch,

Mike I think it all depends on the mood a person is in when reading these posts. They can easily be misinterpreted on a bad day. However, I don't hate
pwna nor it's members. What "bothers" me is that the pwna charges for a membership & charges for it's services and then holds an annual convention to encourage members to spend more moneys, when the members would be better off to run their businesses, read these BBS's, take business courses and ask questions. People like Everett and many others answer questions willingly, not because he's a member of pwna but because he's Everett. I am suggesting that there is a middle man (pwna) that stands in the way that serves no purpose.

I think it more depends on the mood a person is in when writing these posts. This post by you is much more civil, and explains why you feel as you do. The thing you haven't mentioned, though, is that it isn't up to you to determine whether the members would be better off reading the boards, taking classes, etc. That's up to THEM. Some apparently see a benefit and go for it. No one forces anyone to join and pay the membership fee. No one forces anyone to take classes and pay for them. No one forces anyone to go to conventions and spend money. These are all personal choices that each member makes.

You made a statement in an earlier post that basically said that most of the members are newbies who don't know any better. Even if that WERE true, that is again their choice. If they don't know any better and truly get taken advantage of (which I don't believe), that's THEIR fault for not doing their homework before laying down $200.00. The bottom line is that the PWNA offers a service, and it is up to each of us to decide whether they are offering something we want, and whether it is worth what they're charging.

I used to be a member of another trade organization relating to property management. They too charged a membership fee, and then charged for things like education courses, conventions, etc. Most trade organizations do. If all these things were free, your membership dies would be much higher.

Holding classes isn't free. It isn't even cheap. From what I've read, if I understand correctly, PWNA members who teach these courses don't get paid anything. If that's the case, then my hat is off to them. Of course they're compensated for expenses...that's only fair. Should they be expected to pay their own airfare, car rental, hotel, and meals so they can go teach a course for free? Hardly.

Whether the PWNA serves a purpose or not is entirely a subjective thing. It is up to the members to decide if there's a reason for the organization to exist. If no one derives any benefit from it, and no one chooses to remain a member, then there's no reason for it to exist. Until that time, there is apparently a reason. I can't see that 400+ people choose to lay down $200.00/year for something they get nothing out of. Even if it were only a sense of belonging or cameraderie that they got from it, that's up to them to decide if it is worth the money.

Sorry for the long post, but it really isn't up to you to decide these things. You can have your opinions, but when it comes down to it, you only have the right to decide for yourself.

 

[oneness]

Sometimes its not wise to compare a metal object to get a point across,why not compare it to the fan spray nozzles b/c everybody needs those."personally my x-jet is rusted over laying in the bottom of my tool box.

It's a perfect example. You're one of the folks for whom the Xjet just doesn't make sense. Same with the PWNA

Not counting all the other boards,This board alone has over 3,500 members which a few of those are pwna members.When you have powerwashers in the 1000's and 1000's the 450 pwna members seems like a water drop in the bucket.

How many of those 3500 members are currently active members? I'm betting there are more PWNA members than there are currently active members on this board. If not, it's close. How many of those 3500 members came here once, joined, asked a question, and never came back? I mean, if we're going to compare membership here with membership of the PWNA, we ought to look at currently active members. Who cares about someone who used to post here 4 years ago and has been out of business for 3?

 

[klean_freak]

X Jet Hummm.

If i am correct an (X-Jet) is nothing more than an expensive chem injector.



LMAO

Put your chem injector on the end of your wand and hook a long 1/4 hose to chem see what it does.

chem injectors sell for 10 to 16 $ x-Jet sells for 159$

As for organizations i feel that some do good but not most Why you ask cause if you look at politics that is what they are basing thier opinions at look at NRA nothing but politics What Good REALLY does the pwna do ?? FOR you??
Just asking??

Lmao

 

[oneness]

If i am correct an (X-Jet) is nothing more than an expensive chem injector.

No, you are not correct. It is a similar device, using the same effect to create suction in the draw line, but not nearly as capable. You won't fine a downstream injector anywhere that gives you a 2:1 ratio. You also won't find an injector that will shoot chems 30' vertically. You also won't find an injector that ajusts from zero to fan spray with a twist of the valve.

Put your chem injector on the end of your wand and hook a long 1/4 hose to chem see what it does.

You'll get, at best, a 4:1 ratio.

chem injectors sell for 10 to 16 $ x-Jet sells for 159$

The original Xjet can be found for $100.00. You won't find a chem injector with a 4:1 draw rate made completely out of stainless for $16.00.

As for organizations i feel that some do good but not most Why you ask cause if you look at politics that is what they are basing thier opinions at look at NRA nothing but politics What Good REALLY does the pwna do ?? FOR you??
Just asking??

Lmao

LMAO. This is the question. What good really does the PWNA do for you. That's up to each person to decide. Whether you "feel" it does any good, over 400 people seem to derive some benefit from it. Who am I, or you, to say that doesn't matter?

 

[klean_freak]

Sure you will

Make it out of your chem injector IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BALL VALVE with some bells and whistles COME ON MAN??

 

[johnny]

Mike Williamson and Henry, all I can say is "Amen, brothers."

 

[Larry L.]

It's a perfect example. You're one of the folks for whom the Xjet just doesn't make sense. Same with the PWNA

Its not a perfect example,the x-jet made alot of sence,I've found other things/ways of doing things.

How many of those 3500 members are currently active members? I'm betting there are more PWNA members than there are currently active members on this board. If not, it's close. How many of those 3500 members came here once, joined, asked a question, and never came back? I mean, if we're going to compare membership here with membership of the PWNA, we ought to look at currently active members. Who cares about someone who used to post here 4 years ago and has been out of business for 3?

The same goes for the pwna,how many have joined and stopped their membership over the years.Like you say who cares if they aren't paying their membership and still in business...thats a bad way of looking at things don't ya think

 

[oneness]

Its not a perfect example,the x-jet made alot of sence,I've found other things/ways of doing things.



The same goes for the pwna,how many have joined and stopped their membership over the years.Like you say who cares if they aren't paying their membership and still in business...thats a bad way of looking at things don't ya think

That was my point. As with the membership here, PWNA's membership is surely way more than 400 or so, if you count all the past members too. You can't fairly compare 425 current PWNA members with 3500 past and current, active members here. Apples and oranges. You can't say 425 is a drop in the bucket compared to 3500. There aren't 3500 active members here. A couple hundred maybe.

 

[oneness]

Make it out of your chem injector IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BALL VALVE with some bells and whistles COME ON MAN??

Do you even have one?? Have you ever even used one? It is not a ball valve. Like I said in my prior post (which you either didn't read or think I'm full of it), the Xjet is superior to a downstreamer in several ways, the most important of which is draw rate.

I could never clean roofs in the time I do with a downstreamer...I'd be putting down at BEST 1.5% sodium hypchlorite, half the strength that I currently get with the Xjet. I've tried roofs with that strength...it just doesn't work well. Much more time re-applying, and much more time rinsing as a higher pressure than I am comfortable with.

Tell you what. You put together a downstreamer completely made out of SS (and NO ball to corrode and stop working) that will give me a 2.2:1 ratio with a 5.5gpm machine and that will shoot chems 30' in the air, and that can be quickly adjusted to a fan spray with one twist of the valve, and I'll buy it from you for $159.00.

Bottom line, you don't know what the hell you're talking about here. LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

 

[Larry L.]

That was my point. As with the membership here, PWNA's membership is surely way more than 400 or so, if you count all the past members too. You can't fairly compare 425 current PWNA members with 3500 past and current, active members here. Apples and oranges. You can't say 425 is a drop in the bucket compared to 3500. There aren't 3500 active members here. A couple hundred maybe.

Yes I can say that,maybe we need to compare banana's and peaches or foamers and low voltage,as you say hell everybody knows the differents .