Restoring a Deck

joe_homeowner

New Member
I've had 3 people in regarding restoring my clear cedar deck, and I have 3 different stories:

1) Don't powerwash. Sand and seal coat.
2) Don't use cold water or sand. Use hot water at lower pressure to avoid splintering and seal.
3) Use cold water, light sand and seal.

Price is amazingly similar. What are you views?
 

R L S

New Member
There is to much to write here call me Richard at 919-478-1979 and I'll make more sense.
 
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CaroliProWash

New Member
#3 is the simplistic method - there are other steps involved, but of the three, it's the proper way and what's best for your wood. We would never use option 1 or 2. Contact info is below if you want to call :)

Celeste
 

joe_homeowner

New Member
I assume that everything thinks "their" method is best. I was hoping to get some reasoning behind it.

The hot water guy says cold water powerwashing is too high pressure and will cause the wood to splinter, and that ceder is not meant to be sanded down and you'll ruin the wood.

The guys that don't powerwash claim that powerwashing will cause the wood to splinter, which seems to fit the claim of the hot water guy.

The cold water and sand guy seems to admit that he'll "fuzzy up" the wood powerwashing it so he needs to sand it.
 

Aplus

New Member
I KNOW my method is correct.

If the deck has previous finish, apply appropriate stripper, and wash with low pressure cold water.

If the deck has no previous finish, apply detergent, and wash with low pressure cold water.

Apply neutralizer/brightener, and rinse.

If the chem strength is correct and the pressure is no higher than 500 psi, there will be only minor fuzzing, which is removed with an orbital defelting pad.


Contractors #1 & 2 are incorrect. #3 is on the right track. Period!
 

joe_homeowner

New Member
Aplus said:
I KNOW my method is correct.

If the deck has previous finish, apply appropriate stripper, and wash with low pressure cold water.

If the deck has no previous finish, apply detergent, and wash with low pressure cold water.

Apply neutralizer/brightener, and rinse.

If the chem strength is correct and the pressure is no higher than 500 psi, there will be only minor fuzzing, which is removed with an orbital defelting pad.


Contractors #1 & 2 are incorrect. #3 is on the right track. Period!

Unfortunately I haven't encountered anyone that uses your method, so it doesn't help too much.
 

Henry Bockman

New Member
If you haven't found someone that uses Aplus's method, mine or many other very similiar methods I'd say look for another contractor. There are a lot of contractors out there that have no clue on how to safely and properly clean cedar decks. If companies from this BBS haven't contacted you yet, one source you can use is The Power Washers of North America. (www.pwna.org)

There are lots of contractors that know the proper methods of restoring cedar. It may take more work on your part to find them but I can honestly say the results will be worth it. It could also save you thousands of dollars in damages.
 

joe_homeowner

New Member
I just got off the phone with one of the more reputable companies in my area and he told me I'd be nuts not to have it sanded for the same price as powerwashing. He did, however, seem to use the same method as Aplus described, and his price was a bit lower. His view was that hot water was a no-no (as all seem to agree), but that sanding was superior as the deck would appear brand new, but that it was much more labor-intensive and should cost much more.

Have to think about a guy willing to give up business.
 

CCPC

New Member
Mr. Joe Homeowner,

I would really listen to the advice that these fine "WOOD RESTORATION PROFFESIONALS" are giving you. They have years of experience, and they KNOW how to restore wood properly. I'm familar with all the contractors that have spoken up, all use very similar (correct) methods.

It would be wise to take Beth up on her offer to reffer you to a reputable "Woodie" in your area. Good luck with it.
 
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Aplus

New Member
Sanding alone would be a ridiculous approach to preparing a cedar deck for finishing, for the following reasons:

1) It would be nearly impossible to sand completely on the railing system, spindles, and lattice, if any.

2) Sanding alone tends to clog the pores of the wood, making it difficult for stain to properly penetrate.

3) If the cedar is new, it especially needs a wash cycle to remove the mill glaze and to help open up the pores of the wood to accept the stain.

If you'd like more info on proper prep procedures, check out the links provided, or check out my website for further information.

Remember, that just because what we are telling you is different than what you're hearing from your local contractors, it's not because we all have different opinions about how to restore wood. It's more that the local contractors you have spoke with are flat out incorrect. Sorry to have to state that so bluntly.
 

joe_homeowner

New Member
CCPC said:
Mr. Joe Homeowner,

I would really listen to the advise that these fine "WOOD RESTORATION PROFFESIONALS" are giving you. They have years of experience, and they KNOW how to restore wood properly. I'm familar with all the contractors that have spoke nup, all use very similar (correct) methods.

It would be wise to take Beth up on her offer to reffer you to a reputable "Woodie" in your area. Good luck with it.

I "listen" to people who make credible arguments, particularly ones with some evidence of their claims. I'm an experienced computer programmer, and I know many other "experienced" computer programmers who do many things completely wrong even though they think they are experts. Most of them hang out in forums of one sort or another. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and the "best" way is rarely determined by getting a concensus of random people. Nothing personal, but people who powerwash for a living aren't exactly a high IQ crowd, and the fact that you seem to think there is only one way to do things indicates that you're not objective enough to take completely seriously. I'm sure its possible to devise other methods that are equal or superior to the ones you think are the only way to do things.

Aplus's arguments all don't apply, as there is no railing or lattice, the wood isn't new and nothing is going to get stained. The company that does that sanding approach is a very reputable company that does hardwood refinishing also so I assume that they know at least as much about wood as you folks. The only thing I've really learned is that there probably is no perfect way to do it, and likely any of the methods will make the deck look good. I'll probably go with the low-pressure cold wash, prep and seal because its the least likely to do any damage. Which is a pretty bad reason, but its all I have, and Its all I can expect to get.
 

Larry L.

PWN TEAM - Moderator Emeritus
I see you say the other programmers are wrong even tho they too are experts as your way is the right way,its seems that crowd too isn't in the high IQ.Hardwood refinishing is a different animal but a computer experts knows that right.You say the powerwashing crowd aren't really smart enough to answer your expert computer tec but some of us make way more than a computer programmer which a monkey can push buttons.I see you have never cleaned a cat b/c you too think they are alot of ways to do so,they is only one way to do so the right way but your the expert do it your way,nothing personal.
 

Beth

New Member
Nothing personal, but people who powerwash for a living aren't exactly a high IQ crowd, and the fact that you seem to think there is only one way to do things indicates that you're not objective enough to take completely seriously.

Wow. I spent 14 years in corporate America in high tech software sales. Now we own our own business...An entrpreneur in a blue collar trade does not mean that entrepreneur is an idiot. As a matter of fact, Tony (A-Plus) who responded has a hi tech background as well, and if I recall correctly, has his MCSE.

There is more to this, than just starting an engine and ripping up wood. The best of solutions are not in Home Depot, and where wood is concerned, you develop an eye for detail and craftsmanship. I urge you to read the link I posted above, before making any more hasty generalizations about the professionals who do this daily for a living, with pride and professional results.

As fo the choices you presented. I would choose none of them since the one that fits most closely as described will do damage. You need the appropriate cleaners and neutralizers, you need to drop the pressure at the tip - you won't find help for that at HD or Lowes, nor do they stock an array of tips. You will not in all likelihood accomplish this without scarring your deck and raising the grain to the point of it needing sanding, and if you sand it, there is a good chance you'll do that wrong simply by choice of the wrong grit paper. I'll bet if you do this yourself you won't think about wearing PPE, and could end up exposing yourself to carsinogenic substances. For example, oxylic acid is often used to neutralize and brighten, especially on cedar. It also can cause sterility if you are exposed to it.

Cedar, is a softwood. One of the easiest woods to damage. In fact, you can do it as simply as digging into it with a fingernail. Go try it, see how easy the wood scars, then ask yourself if you really want to hit that softwood with ....2,500 - 3,500 PSI or whatever your machine from the hardware store is rated for, since you don't have the right tip to drop the pressure, and no idea how to do this correctly. Every year i personally see countless decks damaged by owners who think they can save a buck, then call in the pro to fix it and don't understand why it costs more to undo damage than it does to care for a deck that was in good shape before they touched it.

We let the chems do the brunt of the work. The machine is used to rinse. It's a process, and there is education for those who learn this trade.

Since you are not doing this yourself, you should look for a pro who is:

Familiar with a two step cleaning process - includes cleaning/or stripping as needed followed by neutralization

Doesn't wash with pressure over 1,000 PSI

Can tell you about the properties of cedar

Knows proper preparatory steps prior to sealing the wood

Doesn't buy selaer from HD or Lowes

If sanding, doesn't sand with higher than 80 grit.

Any professional should be able to expalin the process to you thoroughly, in a way that makes sense. Get references.

Beth

p.s. if we all seem to be saying the same thing it is because we do have an authority we listen to. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/
 
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Larry B

New Member
joe_homeowner said:
people who powerwash for a living aren't exactly a high IQ crowd,

With your preconceived opinion of this industry why would you even consider coming to this forum seeking adivice. I am sure the "pros" at Home Depot are more qualified than the people who do this for a living.

It is offensive to come looking for advice, then set out to refute the very advice given and finally to put down the people you solicited the advice from.

Now please go back to your cubicle.
 

CaroliProWash

New Member
joe_homeowner said:
There's more than one way to skin a cat, and the "best" way is rarely determined by getting a concensus of random people. Nothing personal, but people who powerwash for a living aren't exactly a high IQ crowd, and the fact that you seem to think there is only one way to do things indicates that you're not objective enough to take completely seriously.

If you didn't want a "concensus of random people" - why, with all of your intelligence, did you ask a panel of those with low IQ's? Personally, I happen to prefer and CHOSE wood restoration and power washing over practicing LAW.

The PROFESSIONALS on this bbs are some of the most objective people you'll find when it comes to our industry - that's why we come here. That is also why better methods are outlined. Contractors who do not continue the learning process are the ones that are closed minded.

Mr. Joe Homeowner, you may take the advise of quite a few successful contractors here - or not. It's just your property. Power washing properly is far superior to sanding and much more cost effective. One who wields his pressure washer properly will achieve better results and never need to put a sander on the wood. But, again, it's your property and your money and I'm just someone with a low IQ.

Celeste
 

Henry Bockman

New Member
I won't bother commenting on your... decision on who to use. That's your choice but personally, I hope you decide to do the job yourself so you can gain some respect for the "PRO'S" that were kind enough to take time from their day to "HELP" you for free!

Then, you can send me pictures of your deck after you destroy it, so I can post the pictures on my site along with the "OTHER" home owners that thought they could do the job themselves with no help, research or guidance. You had all the above and chose to snub us with some "better than attitude" after all we did to help you out from the kindness of our hearts.
Thanks for trashing that and making us think about helping the others that follow you.

I give a lot of credit to people that want to do things themselves and that's why I created the guide I have on my website. Even when people didn't follow my instructions and made mistakes the other home owners were good enough people to learn from their mistakes and to admit them.

I don't think your capable of doing that.

Best of luck to ya...

edit..edit...edit...edit..LOL
 

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