Thoughts on Sikkens?

[johnisimpson]

I'm thinking about switching over to using Sikkens as much as possible on all deck refinishing. Does anyone have past experience with it? Everything I'm reading and looking at looks good, but then they all do if you just go by the pamphlet information.

John

 

[Aplus]

While I agree that newly applied Sikkens looks good, it does not last any longer than many other products available. When the time comes to strip the deck, and it will, you will be in for a fun time. Multi coat Sikkens is very hard to effectively remove, especially the darker colors. For this reason, you would be better off using products that are easier to maintain, and easier to strip when the time comes.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Well said, Tony.

 

[johnisimpson]

I appreciate the reply's. It's good for me to get all these questions answered before our season starts. I'm still not sure though about other products lasting as long as sikkens. It seems that while they may last as long in the protection sense, a lot of my customers are as concerned or more concerned about the appearance lasting. I've been told that the key to sikkens is to apply maintenance coats before there are visible problems, and if you don't then by the time it starts to peel it will be to late and you will have to strip it and reprep. We use a good cleaning agent and reguraly use a belt sander to prep our decks; with that approach, is sikkens still difficult to strip? Specifically, what do you normally consider to be difficult? in terms of number of man hours and also technique?

 

[Aplus]

First off, it is difficult to get customers to pay for maintenance coats when the deck is still looking good to them. Even so, you will be creating a multi layer coating situation that will be extremely difficult to deal with down the road.

Stong sodium hydroxide based strippers are about the only way to remove the coating. Frequently, when using strong strippers and higher than prefered water pressure, the wood will develop the nasty fuzzies that are not very becoming.

In my opinion, the most difficult task of stripping decks, are the spindles of the railing. Belt sanders do not work very well on spindles, and the chemicals don't cling very well on vertical surfaces. I suppose you could sand them with a palm sander, or a dremel.

So what you are proposing, is using one of the most expensive deck stains available, then charging them more money to maintain it every year. I don't see how one can continue to recoat over and over without problems.

Then, when the time comes for a complete strip, you will have to charge them another exorbitant price for removal.

I don't think they will remain your faithful customers for long.

Why not look at a product such as Ready Seal, that is much less expensive, and far easier to maintain? If your sales technique is polished, it won't matter what brand of product you use, so long as you present it in a thoughtful, professional manner.

I'm sure others could add their two cents here as well.

 

[wood]

I agree that people will not want to pay for maintnance unless you explain situation ahead of time.Also i dont think you will find many that will pay the high price for gallon of Sikkens,isnt it $50 a gal?
Sodium hydroxide will not remove sikkens ,at all,no matter how strong it is!!!!!!!You can find strippers that will ,such as BTN2 or Floods.

 

[wood]

Forgot to mention something.I like Ready seal,easy to use and so on.I put a test board on my roof ,2 month later ,not only it lightened up too much,in fact it looks like crap,completely gone(color Light brown).Dark red is still looking very good.I hope all my decks dont look like that.Off course full exposure on the roof.I didnt sell much dark red last year,i will this year

 

[Mike Hughes]

Originally posted by wood
.I like Ready seal,easy to use and so on.I put a test board on my roof ,2 month later ,not only it lightened up too much,in fact it looks like crap,completely gone(color Light brown).

Did you put two coats on it? Or just one??

Was the wood real old......what I call "thirsty"?? Sounds like you just didnt put enough product on it.

I've been using Ready Seal since 1998, and have had very few problems. I just looked at a job the other day, one of the first decks I ever did with Ready Seal.......and it looks pretty weak, but it's been over three years now. Its a 3770 square foot deck and fence around a pool. The customer was/is very happy with the product, and our services, and wants us back first thing in the spring to re-do.

Oh......another thing........did you use a moisture meter to make sure the wood was dry enough before you applied it?? If it was not 12% or below moisture, the RS would not penetrate properly.

 

[Aplus]

Sodium hydroxide will not remove sikkens ,at all,no matter how strong it is!!!!!!!You can find strippers that will ,such as BTN2 or Floods. [/B][/QUOTE]


Sodium Hydroxide has worked for me to remove Sikkens. Maybe you are not getting a strong enough solution. I've used Wolmans Deck Strip full strength, and usually get most stain off, although it often takes two stripper applications.

Just my experiences here, everyones results will vary.

 

[PUREPOWER]

YA KNOW......
Alot of people bought the Abdominizer because it looked good on TV and the marketing of it was very slick....mine sits....collecting dust...Why does Thompson's keep selling...marketing...

Everything sells because of marketing....If you really think that you will have enough persuasive selling powers to tell a potential client that you have to come back for more applications and it is going to cost them money again!!!!!!(in the same year), may the good Lord bless you... I don't know you and you don't know me but...I really think you should look at other options...If it is that great of a product, why do you have to recoat(in the same year)...do you plan on just servicing those decks on a semi-annual basis and not expand your customer base...How do you explain to them, after Sikkens fails...Which it will...trust me it does...that you have to charge them even MORE to strip it(next year)?!?!?!?!?

I don't use Ready Seal, but I know that the guys on this board are not operating out of the back of a Ford Pinto station wagon (and I am sure you don't either) that do use it. I use products made for professionals. Do a search on Sikkens and read all of the horror stories about failure. I just did a home show and about 15 out of 80 leads are for Sikkens removal and replacement. My customers send me Christmas cards and Thank You letters for taking it off of the deck.

If you have the manpower and patience and selling abilities to utilize Sikkens...then by all means use it...but this is only my opinion. Don't be fooled by the "MIRACLE DECK SEAL" And at about $50-$60/gal......sorry...not today.

And WOOD... Flood stain strip IS Sodium Hydroxide. Ph of 14. Read the label. Other forms of Sodium Hydroxide work well with removal...it just takes longer. Not bustin' your stones.

Jordan[sb]

 

[johnisimpson]

Thanks everyone for your input on this, it's going to help us a lot as the season opens up. I don't want you to think that everything your saying is falling on deaf ears but let me tell you a little more about the market we hope to be servicing. I live in North Georgia with several communities and towns around that have extremely high average household income levels. I know that it would be hard to maintain a strong and large customer base if we were only offering a high cost product except that it fits a little more with our particular market. I have already done my research on the cost of the product and have been able to establish a deal to pay $39 a gallon, and we always carry over our cost to the customer with no markup.
It seems that if the customer is looking for a sikkens type look and they are willing to pay for the maintenance, then we can market to them. Our average size deck is around 700-800 square feet and the average cost to the customer is $1400 for first time application (that includes stripping, sanding as necessary and application). If we decide to go with sikkens, then we will be modeling our marketing plans and looking for the same customer base and customer service features that friends of ours in St. Louis use (with sikkens). They've had very few complaints with their decks and we feel that the key is their detailed prep work. As I understand it, sikkens normally fails because the stripping wasn't adequate, or the wood wasn't at the proper state for application and (as several of you have mentioned) the customer didn't want the maintenance done on a deck that still looked good.
I haven't used ready seal before, but I will be trying it because of all the good reports it's getting here, but isn't it a very different product from sikkens? in terms of look and base?
And by the way, I do understand the professional nature of the members of this site and that is why I am asking for opinions here and not calling any of the many numbers to be found in the yellow pages here where the owner/operators have never heard of sikkens or ready seal or anything besides what is available at home depot. So, again, let me thank you guys for all the help and information.
john

 

[Greg Rentschler]

Hi John,



I was sitting on the back of my TIMBERSEAL Ford Pinto station wagon when I first tried a sikkens deck

Seriously though, don't let all the hype scare ya. Sikkens fails typically for one of two reasons.

1. Lack of proper prep work.

or

2. Lack of proper maintenance.

Both of these are operator errors. The product in itself, in my opinion, produces outstanding results astetically speaking. It's a coating based finish no different than the paint on a house. If moisture gets between the finish and the substrate the finish is going to come up... no question. The maintenance required is far greater than that of say a Ready Seal deck ...buuttt.... if the homeowners are willing to accept that so be it. By all means do not discount Ready Seal... for most of your customers it will provide an easy solution to maintenance and still yield fantastic results (try the Med. Red!).

Take Care,

Greg