A final thought on the PWNA, *LONG POST*

[DevilDog]

Here is a different way to look at this....

Dan's board is great, we come here, we learn or help others to learn, we have made friends, got answers when needed, if we need someone we simply post (no hassles), we can see more than one side on a subject and make an educational decision on which way we want to do what we asked about from the answers that were given, we can also decide on chemicals, equipment, parts, find tech answers, good answers on sealers, strippers and a ton more. By coming here we are considered members, partners and friends with NO fees to us. How is this paid for? By the sponsers of the board and by Dan's hard work
of building such a nice board, not by some HUGE membership fees or by some long trips cross country to see stuff that we really could of seen locally if we asked the local distributors. Why do we need the PWNA? What do they do for us? Where does the $250 go after it is paid? Why doesn't the PWNA have a sponsership here? Better yet why didnt they spend the 1000's that they make each year on a wonderful board like this one?
With all these questions in mind the answer is obvious, they dont want to, it doesnt benifit them, no money in the pocket. They would rather have us travel cross country two times a year to meet and gain a certification that cant possibly replace hard work and sweat that you only get from "on the job training". A certificate is only a piece of paper, and the piece of paper doesn't make you a better washer, it just says you are. Well my friends, Wolman will certify you for deck cleaning by mail for FREE and if you want to learn about hood cleaning, offer your services to a hood cleaning company OUT OF YOUR AREA for FREE and I will bet in a months time you will know your stuff. That to me makes a lot more scence than $2500 for a three day course. In this day and age with fuel cost in the $1.65-$2.00 range we have to use common scence in how we spend our money. Why blow $250 for a sticker, if you want a sticker, I will give you one for $175 a savings to you of $75 (LOL) but seriously guys and gals if you want to learn about deck cleaning or how to wash a house and you are in Illinois and want to spend a day with me for free just e-mail me and I will train you at no cost, better than the certification, cause I can show you the tricks of the trade.
I think that we should work together and do this lets make a list together of everything that we expect from a pressure washing organization and then once the list is full let us all in each state make teams and build our own organization and have our meetings right here.
I know I am new to this board and hope that I have not offended anyone with my post (pro PWNA) but these are just thoughts and if you disagree, I am very open minded and would love to here from the members the REAL benifits of the PWNA other than recoginition.
Thank you for taking the time to read over my thoughts and I look forward to reading yours.
Lets make this year count for US!

DD

 

[AUSTIN'S AQUA-CLEAN]

WELL SAID POST ,,,DD

SCOTT

 

[Expert]

Where is their web site? It doesn't take too long to sort through a site to see if the organization is progressive, informative, and accurate in the info it presents.
Thanks.

------------------
Dave Simpson
"90% of Customer Problems Can be Preempted by Excellent Communication and Organization."

 

[Jon]

go to www.pwna.org


Some areas are going to be off limits for non members.

The web site has changed considerably since I was last in it, so something or someone is doing something there.

I wonder if they have updated their membership area yet, should have all new members listed with pictures. I need to check that out, now what is my password again, see how often I as a member go there!

Jon

------------------
Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633

 

[Scott Stone]

I do think that it is to everyones advantage to share the knowledge. I even share it with people in my own market until they start trying to take my customers, then I get a couple of theirs.

Another advantage is that by sharing you actually make a few friends and learn something along the way.

As for the PWNA, I was not impressed terribly with the show that I went to. I do think that they are close to the right track . A lot of their problems are in the promotion area of the organization. I think a lot of the promoting is self serving, so that there is definitely room for improvement. Now what would I do to improve the organization?
1. Getting certification programs nationally recognized similar to IKECA or the ASE for mechanics.
2. Promoting being members of PWNA as a positive thing to potential customers.
3. Have programs that are targeted more towards experienced contractors. (in all fairness I know that they are working on this)
4. Stay away from classes at seminars that are to sell a product. Especially a product that is what the whole course is based on. In other words make the classes more generic.
5. Realize that a lot of us actually make a living by just doing fleets. Instead of concentrating on decks and hoods.
6. Make an effort to get different people in leadership positions in the organization. Right now Michael Hinderliter is the president, and he is a very nice person, BUT if I am not mistaken he has been on the board or an executive member since the organization was begun. The same with Daryl Mirza, Robert Hinderliter, etc. Now they are all good people, but if it is always basically the same leadership, problems and the organization will be looked at with the same perspective.
6. Finally, If it is possible and has not happened yet join an organization of professional lobbyists that can lobby for changes in the insurance laws etc. Avery may be a good guy, but there is always strength in numbers. If there are 100 or 1000 organizations asking for the same changes you can bet that they will be more likely to be heard. It will also free up the management organization to do other things to promote the PWNA to potential customers in the transportation, construction, restaurant and other industries.
There is potential for greatness in the organization, and it was a fantastic idea to start an organization. It just needs to be refined and have the full potential opened up before the possibilities can be accomplished.


------------------
Any statement that I make about equipment, processes or your hair color is my own personal opinion. I usually base it on personal experience. If you disagree with me you are free to reply on both the BBS and by e-mail. If I am totally off base please explain why on the BBS so that we may all know why
Bus. Phone 480-834-3434
Cell Phone 602-509-9741

 

[Ramon]

I second that Scott. As many of you may know I make my living doing fleets. I would like to see more stuff for people like me. I see alot on decks, etc. but not much for fleetwashers.

Ramon

 

[Glenn]

Devil Dog,
All that sounds good, will you offer it for free? No, absolutely not. You can't due to actual costs associated with runnung a reputable organization. Will Dan give you this BBS to hold meetings and such for FREE, No, of course not. His sponsors probably woundn't agree to it. So, go out and get a national headquarters. Hire office personnel, buy computers, software, get a nonprofit organization tax exemption (good luck). Now build a BBS, Dan can probably tell you about the tens of thousands this will cost. Host some trade shows in some major cities, after all we need something to benefit from being members besides a BBS because we can get that for free here and other places. Advertise all this at your expense because you won't be able to advertise here unless you are a sponsor and that will cost $$$. Get nationnally recognized so people wont laugh. Now, did I mention equipment manufacturer and distributor members, you know their membership dues are more than contractors, you will need some of these to make it all work. Did I mention volunteers to donate their time to serve on commitees, and the board of directors for free? Organize all this for under $250.00 a yaer per member.
Now, PWNA is the only national trade organization we have, I challenge you to build a better one. Untill then, I will stay a member of PWNA. I will be waiting for your organization years from now if you can make it all happen. You think all of this can happen on its own, but it can't. It takes years, years, and years to build a trade organization. Why build one when you have one already. Guys, PWNA is nonprofit! It is owned by us its members. As a member we have a voice to change it, manipulate it into what ever we want. Become a member, get elected to the board and become our voice. Then you will have the organization you are talking about.
You know people bitch about paying taxes, but they expect to be provided with national defense, a right to vote, police and fire protection, roads and other public rights of way, etc., etc. You will get nothing for nothing.
Devil Dog and Randy, I challenge you to build this dream organization you talk about for free, I am waiting to benefit from being a member. Untill then you can find me at PWNA. This is my last post on this subject!
Thanks for reading this long post,
Glenn

 

[Mike@Everclear]

Amen.

------------------
Mike Hughes
Everclear
Souderton, PA

 

[Jon]

Damn Glenn,

You have humbled me, sure I sound off about PWNA, sure I am a member and pay my dues, and I am sure I will continue to do so in the future.

Yes I have offered help to them in ways I feel I can help.

Yes it cost money, and yes we all know it is as Scott Stone said, the same few continue to run it year in and year out.

I would love seing others in the top place, I do not see it happening since even as a non-profit organization it is still run (controlled) by the same few. That more then anything is what bothers me the most.

I think you pretty much said it all and perhaps now everyone can get off the stump about the PWNA.

Let all who knock it join for two years, give them positive feedback and positive idea's and see if in those two years things do not improve.

Jon

I love my job, it's the work I hate

------------------
Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633

<FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Jon on June 04, 2000 ]</font>

 

[DevilDog]

Glenn,
My intention was not to offend you and I must of in some way. I simply stated my over view of the entire senerio and offered an opinion. I did not state that I felt that Dan should just through his board in for free, I mistankenly said that we could always meet here, my fault and my intention was not to use Dans board. I dont think that sponsers would mind if it was use for that though as sponsers and advertisers both set up exhibits at shows, so what would be the problem with sponsering Dans board if this is where the meeting was.
I did though say if there were goods, offer them to me because I myself havent really havent heard anything in over 15 years that would make me join. With your return post to me I feel like a non union man standing at the picket post trying to go to work while the union is on strike. Like I said in my post this was a final thought, nothing more. I figured those with good to say would come in and say it not badger me for speaking my mind. Offer the positive and dont alway read into what is not there, I've talked to the PWNA and they did that to me to. I asked them questions with the intention to join 2 years ago and they just didnt want to help me understand what they were going to do for me.
The office cost are not that high as there is under 500 active members in the PWNA, I track 5000 on my data base and my entire set up is under $10,000 as for the shows they are paid for by the sponsers and advertisers that set up booths. Glenn please tell me what the PWNA has offered you and what you have gained and others that are in please join. I trust contractors with PWNA experience more than someone wanting my money. Also if you were a member and there were negitives post them, I'd like to here those as well.
Thanks, and let me say once again, I'm not downing the PWNA, I dont understand the goods and I am looking for the right answers. I am not above joining but it will be for the right reasons.

DD

 

[pressurewashing]

We have heard a lot about PWNA and we have looked at their site..not impressed. Maybe PWNA needs to check out this board and then MAYBE they would try to fix things and gain new members. Why don't they advertise here like cleaner times and x jet? Until I see something more I don't think I will join but maybe some of their members that attend this board so often need to send copies of the complaints and suggestion to them. We all need suggestions and information, that is why we log onto this board to learn to make an informed decission. Currently my informed decession is not to join PWNA at this time. I do not mean to offend any PWNA members but I can make a sticker for about $1 on my computer why spend 250.
Seems like PWNA needs to hire Dan cause this is a great board. Best I have seen.

GREAT JOB DAN!

Jim & Shirley

 

[Beth]

Hi All,
First off, there is some misinformation in this thread.
The current President of the PWNA is NOT Michael Hinderliter, he is tha Past President. The current President is Chris Detter. Also, Avery has been gone for about a year, and Jack took his place.

The board of directors is changing. There is some new blood there. Mike Hughes was elected this past year.

The web site is undergong some changes. Maybe not as fast as everyone would like, but hey.... volunteers take their own time to build it, at no cost to the organization.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify who is in office.

Beth

 

[Dan S]

you dont need no freakin label to wash ... or a card saying that you are among the elite p/wers of Amercia ..

it's all hog wash



is'nt it funny that it has been around for 10 years and they only have 300 members...

look at the members here 1750 or something like that ..... and the other bb 787 or something like that .......... now thats funny !

I dont agree with my buddie Jon .................

Join it for 2years then say something ....... lets see thats 500.00

I DONT THINK SO

and for what ... we join so they have #"s heck they cant get #'S now and it's been 10 years ........ people joining dropping out ..
go-figure

for 500.00 I can do a radio add
a pile of flyers

and get 100 x my money back .............. all with out a "LABEL"

 

[Scott Stone]

HEy Beth,
I think that when this post started out it was Michael and Avery. If you will notice it was started in June of 2000.

Scott

 

[EXTREME]

there is good info here. I feel I have posted good suggestions on other boards about the PWNA, I know the only real way to make a change is to join. The problem is I can't afford it. That is my main problem with the PWNA. I stand by my position that there should be state chapters. Ahh, here you go. Membership to a local chapter, $25.00 per year, local chapter pays dues to state chapter of $75.00 per year, then state chapter pays dues to national organization in the amount of $150.00 per year. I think that would work nicely. It would make it affordable, would make more $ for the organization and would help get members by having local chapters. Hey, can I get a honorary membership for one year so I can just try to get what I just said done? I honestly think it would be a huge step at membership amongst other things.

 

[David Saulque]

Even a post that is near 3 years old seems like it was written yesterday-same problems just new faces.

David

 

[Beth]

Hi Scott,
You're right! I didn't catch the date. Wow....this is an old thread. Just goes to show you, that threads do pop back up from time to time.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Beth

 

[Ron Musgraves]

WOW ten years later

I do think that it is to everyones advantage to share the knowledge. I even share it with people in my own market until they start trying to take my customers, then I get a couple of theirs.

Another advantage is that by sharing you actually make a few friends and learn something along the way.

As for the PWNA, I was not impressed terribly with the show that I went to. I do think that they are close to the right track . A lot of their problems are in the promotion area of the organization. I think a lot of the promoting is self serving, so that there is definitely room for improvement. Now what would I do to improve the organization?
1. Getting certification programs nationally recognized similar to IKECA or the ASE for mechanics.
2. Promoting being members of PWNA as a positive thing to potential customers.
3. Have programs that are targeted more towards experienced contractors. (in all fairness I know that they are working on this)
4. Stay away from classes at seminars that are to sell a product. Especially a product that is what the whole course is based on. In other words make the classes more generic.
5. Realize that a lot of us actually make a living by just doing fleets. Instead of concentrating on decks and hoods.
6. Make an effort to get different people in leadership positions in the organization. Right now Michael Hinderliter is the president, and he is a very nice person, BUT if I am not mistaken he has been on the board or an executive member since the organization was begun. The same with Daryl Mirza, Robert Hinderliter, etc. Now they are all good people, but if it is always basically the same leadership, problems and the organization will be looked at with the same perspective.
6. Finally, If it is possible and has not happened yet join an organization of professional lobbyists that can lobby for changes in the insurance laws etc. Avery may be a good guy, but there is always strength in numbers. If there are 100 or 1000 organizations asking for the same changes you can bet that they will be more likely to be heard. It will also free up the management organization to do other things to promote the PWNA to potential customers in the transportation, construction, restaurant and other industries.
There is potential for greatness in the organization, and it was a fantastic idea to start an organization. It just needs to be refined and have the full potential opened up before the possibilities can be accomplished.


------------------
Any statement that I make about equipment, processes or your hair color is my own personal opinion. I usually base it on personal experience. If you disagree with me you are free to reply on both the BBS and by e-mail. If I am totally off base please explain why on the BBS so that we may all know why
Bus. Phone 480-834-3434
Cell Phone 602-509-9741