Acid wash

[Richard R.]

Can anyone tell me why you are not supposed to use muratic acid on brick?
I don't necessarily agree, but I would like to hear some of your feed back.
Also, is the damage caused by Muratic Acid a slow process or will you be able to see the damage once the wall dries?

Thanks
Richard

 

[jschessler]

acid

It removes top layer of what ever you might be cleaning. This is called edging, pre for paint or sealers. If you do this you need to seal the surface otherwise the next time it will not be so easy to clean.Also neutralize the effect of the muratic acid or it will turn the surface yellow where you used.......that is why.

 

[Mikespowrwash]

Richard, I don't use muriatic acid on brick because I feel it's too harsh a product. I use sure clean 600 to clean brick it has hydrochloric acid which some say is muriatic acid but Im not a chemist. I used muriatic acid once and burned the joints on a brick job so I switched to detergent 600 as recommended by nearly all the local brick suppliers in my area although they also carry muriatic acid. The cost isn't that much more and Ive never had a problem on windows or burning of the joints and never had any problem with damaging the brick surface. Just my 2 cents and over 10 years experience in cleaning brick.

 

[Jon]

Richard,

Try this web site, there are many more that offer help also.

Not being into that line I am not able to say anything about this product.

http://www.brightstn.com/stonecleaners.html

 

[Bill B]

I clean roughly 400 houses/small commercial buildings per year. I frankly think the D600 issue is a scam. This material works great if the brick layers do an extremely professional job; otherwise I am not able to achieve the level of cleanliness needed. I have never burned any brick or mortar, but I apply an extraordinary amount of water before/after the chemical treatment. When I use muratic acid I control the concentration closely, depending on the brick being cleaned and components in the mortar.

That said, if I didn't do this every day I would use only D600 or equivelent. In fact, some brick can not tolerate even D600.

 

[outlaw]

Bear with me, as I'm trying to learn but are yall talking about using muratic acid on new construction brick homes and if the home is sideing on the top half and brick on the bottom half as many are round here, then what, do you wash each half seperatly with different cleaners, at the moment my question is really pertaining to cold water as that is the budget I'm starting with.
Gav

 

[Bill B]

Gav, most of the new houses I clean have vinyl trim, which can usually be cleaned with simple water, or water and a little dish wash soap.

Cleaning dirty brick (i.e. removing mortar, etc) is a much bigger task. Think twice before getting into this line of work. Again, I probably would not do it at all, if I didn't do it all of the time. My 2 cents.

 

[outlaw]

Thanks for the reply Bill, I have a small window cleaning business and I am looking at adding pressure washing as another service I provide, mainly because I have had so many customers that ask me about this, I've even done a couple of jobs because it was the only way to get the window job aswell, so I figure instead of renting a unit and doing the odd job I might aswell buy one and start advertizing, I could certainly do with the extra business and unlike the majority of p/w I like cleaning windows(or at least it seems like that reading some of these threads). One thing I plan on staying away from is new construction as I already do.
Gav

 

[ghouchu]

i've used muratic acid on my brick patio and walkway without a problem but i watered down first and let the acid dwell for maybe 15 to 20 seconds before hosing it down thoroughly. i don't know if you could accomplish that short a dwell time on a house.

let me hasten to add that my friend in the wholesale brick business says NEVER to use muratic acid on brick. he adds that brick is more fragile than it appears--some older type bricks have a tolerance as low as 600 psi(that's for weight-bearing purposes--i don't know how that translates to the pressure wash context)

personally, i tell customers that i'm happy to hit the brick part of their homes with my house wash, but that i don't promise it will do any more than get the mildew off.

rotsa ruck

richard

 

[timhays]

i am with Bill on this subject. everyone says dont use muriatic (hypochloric acid) on brick,but there is a large company here with 50 men and all they use is muriatic acid. i can go to the local chemical company early in the morning and every pressure washer and brick cleaner are lined up getting acid.
i hear everyone say prosoco but i dont see anyone using it.

 

[timhays]

do you think all the brick manufacturers might be getting a piece of the action reccomending this particular product?

 

[Richard R.]

Thanks Guys,
That was the whole reason I posted this question.
Everywhere I go, I hear "Don't use Muratic Acid on Brick", but many of the cleaners contain Hydrochloric acid.
I went inside a well known brick company (Acme Brick Co.)the other day and was told the same thing. I told them that Muratic Acid was nothing but Hydrochloric Acid. The guy started to argue with me. I went out and looked at my Muratic Acid and sure enough, it says Muratic (Hydrochloric Acid). Maybe it was because their cleaner was $18.00 a gallon and Muratic Acid is only a few dollars a gallon.
Sounds like a lot of dishonesty going on doesn't it?
Anyway, when using 10% to 20% Muratic Acid to however much water needed, it will most likely work just fine. So far, it seems to be the only thing working that well for me.
Hopefully I will be able to post some before, during and after photos before to long.

I appreciate everyone's post.

Richard R.

 

[Richard R.]

Tim I hate to say it, but it sure sounds like somethings off kelter doesn't it?
Surely they don't think everyone is that naive.
I guess I am so used to everyone being on the up and up on this BB that I expect all the other professions to be the same too.

Richard R.

 

[Richard R.]

Jon,
I appreciate that web link more than you know.
It couldn't have been better timing. I was just asked to seal a tile porch this evening and this product seems perfect for the job.

Now I have to figure out the best way to apply the sealer abd how much to charge per sq. ft.

Anymore suggestions?

Thanks Again.

Richard R

 

[Bill B]

Tim, regarding your question about the brick companies I do have a theory. My opinion is that the brick companies call for the use of formulated materials because they are much more gentle than straight muratic (lower concentration of acid, plus some are buffered) - its a CYA issue. Similarly, if you read the cleaning instructions many bricks "can not be pressure washed". Which brings me back to my original comment - if the folks laying the brick do an outstanding job, then the formulated products work well.

The brick suppliers certainly enjoy the financial benefit of the D600 specification since they sell it along with the brick.

I use a couple of thousand #s of cleaner per month. If I used only formulated products I would be broke.

 

[timhays]

Bill,i agree completely. with the prices i have to charge i cant spend anymore on chemicals per job.
i am interested on what these "buffers" consist of.

 

[Mikespowrwash]

All I can say is what I use and what experience Ive had. I worked for my dad's masonry co. since 1987 and in those years we laid and yes cleaned many thousands of brick. Guess what.....we use d600 and wouldn't use anything else. Since then I have several more masons that keep me busy, I do clean other things..decks, houses, vehicles but I have cleaned more brick than anything else. There are always going to be people saying muriatic acid is too harsh or d600 isn't strong enough but that is My Method. I use d600 and like my results. I make very good money cleaning brick. I get 25 cents a square foot and can clean a brick front of a house by myself from the ground in 3 hrs on most days. I pocket 300.00 after my d600, fuel and whatever else so hey it works for me. If you want more profit go for it but I make out fine 2 of those a day in close proximity and Im very happy. I would hate to see brick that I had to clean that d600 wouldn't remove the mortar stains. Never said I didn't scrape the walls first. The tags (balls of mortar on the wall) must be removed mechanically first.I have a flat, steel scraper I rigged on a 20' extension pole. I can knock off most tags from the ground quickly. I then wet the wall very well, apply my d600 at whatever ratio I fell necessary to complete the job, let it dwell a few mins while scraping more if need be then reapply d600 again. Then I low pressure rinse (1500 - 2000 psi most of the time) very very well with 15 degree tip and vary the distance from the wall depending upon how stained it is. If you get the tags off all you have to remove are the stains, no problem for d600. I don't try to knock off a 3" x 3" mortar ball with acid and a powerwasher- not going to happen, but the stain will come off fairly easy if you can wash 2 weeks after the masons are finished. If it has been long it will be more difficult. Just because a lot of you use muriatic acid all the time doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong. I will stay with my tried and true methods. I pay 350 for 55 gallons of d600 and it can be cut 3 to 1 then downstreamed. I find this quite economical and profitable. Sorry for the long post but don't call me naive or unprofessional. My methods work for me, my masons are happy and my phone rings so I must be doing something right.

Mike

 

[outlaw]

Sorry for my ignorance, but do you use a cold or hot water unit.
Gav

 

[Mikespowrwash]

Never ignorant to ask questions only ignorant to say someone elses methods or products don't work just because some on this board use different methods. I use cold water and d600 and I was one of the first to reply to this thread. 15 years is a long time, half my life to be exact but yet some here blast my methods and products and say it is a scam! Come on that is rediculous but hey I learn a valued lesson. Try to help someone and take a licking on the boards. Well those are the breaks but you are in no way ignorant. Nothing in this business is an exact science but I make it work for me.

Mike

 

[outlaw]

Thanks Mike,
I only asked because I am about to buy a cold water unit to add on to my window cleaning business, and some of the posts on here seemed to imply (to me anyway) that cold water wasn't the way to go, however thats whats in my budget will allow and I find it promising to here the things people manage to do with the right solution's and a cold water pw.
Gav