Belt Drive Help!!!

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>If you mean chunk it in lieu of a dump gun, I can't do that. You know I'm in FL. Every time it doesn't rain here for a month, they scream WATER RESTRICTION!!! If they were to see me dumping h2o like that they'd defecate a 2 1/4 x 3 3/4 x 8 chunk of kiln fired red clay!

Besides, with a dump gun, I don't think my heaters would shut off.

I'll probably just take it to the shop on Thursday & let them give it a listen, unless of course someone tells me how to fix it b4 then. But I gotta feelin it's just a goin bad unloader!</font>

 

[melsmobile]

If your running 2 to 1 on the pulleys , you may need to slow the motor down a little , take the unloader off and no gun just 100' of hose and put the hose in a 5 gallon bucket for 1 min. to see how much water your putting out.

or slow the motor down and see if the unloader start working right.

Mel

 

[Mark]

Cody,

Are you running 2 pumps teed together here?


I posted a picture of an AL 606 unloader the AL 607 is identical except with a black spring and rated for up to 4000 PSI.

I will be in m y office this morning after 7:30 AM PDT if you want to discuss this problem call me.

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Thanks Mark. <i>(& No this was on the belt drive unit I was putting together. Running by it's self it was doing it. And the unloader was the 607. Sorry for not responding sooner. I had to put on my Pressure Washer Hat in order to go out & get caught up!)</i>

And Thanks ALL!!!

I got it fixed, I put another unloader on it & it works fine. Go Figure. It was acting like a line leak, I have no clue why it don't work. Maybe <font color=green><B>Bigboy</b></font> was right & something from my pump fraggin got into it.

Who Knows, who cares, it works!

Cody</font>

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>How bout those belts?? I have a vew concerns about belts now that I am running a belt drive.

I'm getting some slippage, probably from the new pulley's & fresh paint, along with nice new belts. However they are pretty tight.

How tight should they be? Half turn of the belt, 1/4 turn? No turn.

<b>Couple Other Questions</b>

Can you over tighten the belts?

How often do you end up having to adjust them?

How long do belts normally last?

Thanks
Cody</font>

 

[Larry L.]

You can over tighten anything,are you running V-belts? I think 1/2 or 1/4 would be ok,I hardly ever have to tighten my belts.

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Yeah, V-belts. There the 1/2" traction (grooved) type. There called "A" belts.

What is the outcome of over tightening? I had em pretty snug & was slipping. I'm not sure how far I should push it. Am I worried about anything aside from snapping the belts? I'd guess that I'll need them pretty tight seeing as this is a 18hp & A 2021 pump <i>rated at 5.6gpm @ 3500</i>

What the rule of thumb here. Tighten them up just to where they can just be turned over at mid point 180?

Thanks

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Never mind the belt tightening,, Scott helped me out,, Thanks!!

Cody</font>

 

[Mark]

Belt Tension

I have gone by feel for years, but it is hard to describe how a properly adjusted belt feels.

I figured I would post this info for the next guy who might need to know. Glad Scott was able to help you.

Proper belt tension would allow for 1/64 of an inch deflection for each inch of span between pulley centers with a 6#lb force applied in the middle of the span.

EXAMPLE:
A 6# lb force applied at the middle of an 8 inch span should produce a belt deflection of 8/64" or 1/8 inch.

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Great answer Mark. I was looking for something exact like that. Where does that forumla come from? And Does it apply to all different belt systems? Like for 2 belt & 4 belt? Just wondering since the belts are different sizes. I think the 2 belt pulleys are often 1/2 inch & the 4 belt are around 3/8 inch.

Also while your here, is there a Stainless Muffler system available for the 18hp honda, if so how much. How much for a standard muffler also. My 18 needs a new one, I don't know if the muffler can be sold alone, or if it has to come with the pipe system. I don't need the pipe, unless I put on stainless, I'd like to change that too but I don't have the nerve to do it, I am spooked that I'll break the head bolts on it. There are no holes in it so I'd like to just leave well enough alone.

<a href="mailto:cody@cfl.rr.com">My Email</a>

 

[Mark]

Cody,

Thanks I got the belt tension data out of an Alkota 5355 manual (5 .5 GPM @ 3500 PSI Hot pressure washer) manual. The same belt tension specifications would apply on 2 HP electric units.

I am not aware of a stainless steel muffler made for the Honda engines. I have made a notation to look up the Honda muffler price for you.

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Thanks Mark!

I think that I am going to shop for a new machine too! Well the parts to build one anyway. I need a back-up for my 18's. I'm not sure which motor I want to get. I'm thinking either a 20 or 24. The 20 is probably the one I will go with, but I have been wandering about a 24 just to have the little extra umph incase I want to add anything later,, like an alternator or small generator to it.

I would imagine that I could add a 60amp alternator to the 20hp easily enough, I doubt it takes much to run one. I just need to figure out how people add these things. Would I need to get a 3belt pulley for the motor & run 2 to my pump & one to my accy?

I'm thinking

Cody.</font>

 

[Mark]

Cody,

The 24 HP Honda is a great engine, and yes you would run a 3 groove sheave (aka pulley)on your engine, and then a single groove on your generator or alternator.

Is it a cold water washer you are considering building?

Vanguard is introducing a 28 or 30 HP air cooled engine real soon.

Kohler has a 25 HP air cooled. How about an 8 GPM pump driven by the 24 HP or bigger engine?

8 GPM @ 3000 PSI or 3500 PSI depending on power source.

My 8 GPM @ 3000 (and my 8 GPM @ 3500 PSI) customers swear they will never go back to anything with lower GPM for their flat work / building washing / fleet washing.

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>Cold water machine,, Yes & No, depending on what you mean. I don't use the intergrated stuff. I have seperate Pressure Washers & Heaters. It will end up being used with a heater.

The 8gpm, I don't think it will work for me. I have always used around 5gpm machines. Since It will probably end up being paired with another machine on a 2 man rig I think 8gpm would be too much. Reason being that with 2 5gpm machines running you very often need to keep a close eye on the tank. Seems that most water supply's that I hit are only delivering around 10gpm on average. If it wasn't for the common starts & starts, breaks & lunch we'd beat the water supply on a frequent basis. Frankly I'd love to go to 8gpm, I'm sure it'd speed things up if I always had a supply that'd keep up with it.

I'll probably stick with Honda. I don't see me needing anymore than 24hp to justify the change to a Briggs or Kohler.

On one hand I would love to try one of those out but it's difficult to do when Honda's have been so reliable for me. Aside from muffler manifold bolts breaking & crankshafts getting narled up the Honda's have been just unbelievably reliable, especially with how hard I work them & poorly I treat them. Plus, it seems that the Honda's are better priced than the others too, which suprises the hell out of me, I would really figure that the honda's would be more.

The only thing that would sell me on another would be if I could put a gearbox on them with a 100% gaurantee that the crankshaft would not get damaged EVER. That'd probably get me to try one out. I like my gearbox's. The only thing this belt drive offers me is a non damages shaft and it's a fair share quieter. I would prefer a GB but I'm tired of the shaft problems. I guess I need to get some pics of these things. I have 4 I think that are down becuase of it. I have been thinking of taking the pics & sending them along with a letter to Honda about the issue.

A couple 3 years back I had considered getting into manufacturing Pressure Washers. I had contacted my local Honda distributor re purchasing engines. They said that they could sell them too me but would need to inspect my iniatial system setups for each model that I wanted to build, 5hp, 9hp, 13hp, belt, gb, dd, etc... to verify they were to their satisfaction prior to my purchasing them in quanity. I've been thinking about that alot lately with regards to my broken warriors. I figure that if honda is inspecting them for quality, then they are missing this important little problem here with the GB setups. I would imagine that the DD setup probably has the same effect on the crackshaft as well. Telling them might help, then again it might not. I would think that they have to know this is happening then again maybe not!

Ahh well just a little injected rambling there

Thanks again
Cody

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>SIgh!!

More belt problems...

Do you have to give new belts some break in time & then retighten? I had a brand new set of NAPA AX43 traction belts on the beast, I got maybe 12 hours out of em & they started to slip. I guess they slipped alot because they are ruined. I tried to tighten them but they just stretched.

I may have another problem too. I'll have to check it tomorrow. I popped a new muffler on it & I am feeling alot of hot air flow underneath it right on top of the belt cover. I'm wondering if this was/is causing the belts to get heated.

Cody
Another Day, Another Problem

 

[Larry L.]

Yes,sometimes you have to tighten them two or three times,all new belts stretch.

Take off a few days and go fishing man,all that problem will be in the lake.

 

[Cody]

<font color=e87400>I shoulda gone fishing! I think my crankshaft bearings went out tonight Bummer!

And, No I don't think the belts were over tightened, I have a solid 1/4 play in them, more if you put some force to it. Maybe the engine had just seen too much combat prior to setting it up on belts? Who knows. Guess I'll be heading up today to get a new 20-24hp Honda.</font>

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Cody,
Man I feel for you.

Bad unloaderds, flow switches, cranks on your engines wallering out, pumps failing, wrong pulley sizes, springs in your coil blocking flow, now crank bearings in your engines going out!

You need a vacation!!!!

 

[Cody]

Dear Diary

<font color=e87400>Yeah, B.E., things sorta Blow lately!

My bearings aren't bad afterall.

I took the machine to the doctor he said it's fine, there's a knock but he say's it;s not in the engine. Seemed to think it was maybe a harmonic distortion causing it. I took it to another guy for a second opinion, he said the same thing. So. I did'nt purchase a new motor.

Welp, I found out what it was. The pulley that was giving me hell fell off again on Thurs evening. Bummer. That sucker was even welded on. For a couple reasons that are apparent now, the thing obviously developed a wooble, that was the knockin, the wooble enabled it to break the welds, partly sheering one, & the rest is history. rat-a-tat-tat FLING! off flies the pulley, down goes the machine.

Friday, I was on the phone getting EXTREME. I decided that I was going to go back to the drawing board & once again pursue a PTO setup. Orginally I had decided to to this on this rig, turned out not feesible at the time. Now, I was figuring that I'd just get a milder version on the PTO, this being a Transmission mount model. Well, after about 6 hrs on the phone today with people I have come to the conclusion that a transmission mount model isn't going to work anytime soon.

It's amazing how little some of the PTO manufactures know about their own systems. I got an engineer on the phone & asked about duty cycles for the system, he replies, "Well, I think it will be ok" & "it will probably function for that period of time" I was dumbfounded, if the engineer that designs these things can't give me a straight answer... ugh. I am only putting this on a 30K truck with a 13K miles transmission, pardon me if I want a straight answer as to wether or not A) it's going to frag my tranny, & B) wether or not it's going to frag itself. Geez!

Anyhow, By the time I got through all that I had no time to get this thing back on the road. I had mechanics on standby for a PTO system, yeah I was at that point, however it didn't pan out. So by the time I got finished, & PO'd, with various PTO people I decided that I'd just go get the 24hp honda, hook it up & have it there, if nothing else I'd keep it for a BU system. It's 4:15 by this time, the motor was 50 minutes away they close at 5. They're closed til monday. Guess I'll take the weekend off afterall.

Maybe someone is trying to tell me to go Fishing!</font>

 

[B.E YOUNG Sr]

Cody,

Would you be interested in selling that 18 hp with the messed up shaft?