BIG $$$$$$

[kfeuerstein]

What do you think the average full time power washer makes in a given year? This industry seems rife with big talkers (at least in Michigan) who claim they make as much as doctors during the spring, summer and fall. Then they go to Florida and make another $50,000 cash during the winter! BS! Every time I drive by their house their rig is sitting in the driveway!


------------------

 

[Mark Dadian]

Talk is cheap!

Go to work and then kick their butts all the way down to Dismalworld.

------------------
GBU

Mark A. Dadian

 

[Jon]

Hey Mark,

Right on the mark!

Those that brag the loudest make the least, why they have the time to brag!

Reminds me of a guy named Lance..



------------------
Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633

 

[Scott Stone]

My best guess would be that the average is around $30,000 to $40,000 a year for a full time operator. This is for someone that has gross sales of around $100,000 a year. Of course, if you don't pay for the goodies that make you a legitimate business, Workmens comp, Liability insurance, Commercial vehicle insurance, Employee taxes and social security taxes, you will make more. You just can't get some of the bigger accounts because they ask for that stuff. It also seems that the guy's that seem to do the best specialize. I do fleets, Ron Marshall does flat work, and David Saulque does hoods. I think the three of us are in the upper percentiles of what someone could make. I could be wrong though. It has also been my experience that as you add crews that you your net income does not go up proportionately. Everyone that I have talked to says that if you do not want to work that you need four crews to make as much as you could with one rig when you work yourself. This has been the experience of at least five experienced contractors.
Now do I know it all? NO WAY!! I don't post many questions on the board for a couple of reasons. This board is not bad, but some of the others you will get an idiot that responds that either did not understand the question or thinks that fleets are the same as decks and are the same as flat work. I also have a network of people that I use to answer questions. Some have more experience than me and others have significantly less. Some have been in business for a year and a half, but have significant business experience and know that they don't know everything. A network is always nice for this type of thing.

Of course as always these are my opinions.

------------------
Any statement that I make about equipment, processes or your hair color is my own personal opinion. I usually base it on personal experience. If you disagree with me you are free to reply on both the BBS and by e-mail. If I am totally off base please explain why on the BBS so that we may all know why
Bus. Phone 480-834-3434
Cell Phone 602-509-9741

 

[bgbrew01]

I agree with Scott that the people who make the most money specialize. Our company specializes in only flat work with large companies. If we can not sign some sort of contract or be gauranteed work in the future we seldom do work for them. This has worked well for us. I feel it would hurt our business if we were to try to do fleet work or residential houses for that matter, because we do not specialize in that sort stuff. It is easier to get a name for yourself in one category, also. Word of mouth is the best way to get and keep business. If it is known that your company is the one to call in a particular situation you will get almost all of that area of business.

Scott,
I do not understand how you determined that you need 4 crews of employees working to make the amount that one truck would make. I have it down to where our employee trucks make us 50% profit on their job assignments. When I am operating a truck it makes us about 2/3% profit. We figured out that to make more money with employees that it pays to pay them by the job not by the hour. If they are payed by the job then they can be held more responsible for quality and they tend to hussle more. The slacking off by employees is where a serious amount of money is lost.
For example, we have 28 restraunts we clean on a weekly basis for an average of $45. We pay an employee $10 a store and he can get five done in about 5 hours. When we were paying the same employee $10 hourly it would take almost 7 hours to complete a store. When you include $12-15 per store for expenses (insurance, gas chemical etc) then we are profiting about 50% per store per week. When we started doing this it freed my partner and I up to sell to larger customers and complete all of their work at night with us there to supervise. I have only been in busines a very short while(7 months) so if anyone has a better way to do it I would love to hear it. These are just my numbers though for what it is worth.

------------------

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Bigbrew,


First of all let’s all face the facts-------each and every one of us runs our business differently. I think Scott was only suggesting that when you’re a jack of all trade but master of none, it might be a little harder or more difficult to manage the personnel and keep the quantity & quality where your customers and you are happy.
Production is the key word. If your quality is not there forget about building a strong business.


Of course if you send out one rig you should make x amount of dollars. If you send two rigs they make x amount more. ect. ect. ect. This is the problem all small or large businesses have. -----management----
Theirs a real cost in having more than one of two rigs running. No second rig will ever run as efficient as the one you ran when you where starting your business. If you think it will you are lying to yourself. Personnel will never care about your trucks your equipment & accounts like you will.

My opinion on paying your guys on commission is fine if you’re standing over them. I’m assuming you are since you have only been in business seven months. When you’re not watching their production it will even go higher. Then I will show up or someone like me at your customer’s door the same day your guys were there. I pay my guys by the hour some salary and tell them to take their time because we bid the job properly and customer satisfaction and quality comes first. I don’t want anyone coming by the next day to find out we didn’t do our job.

The bottom line is managing your crews. If you manage well you will make more money. Theirs is a learning curve everyone will go through. When you take on your second rig it wont be a simple as sending guys out and everything will run great and you’ll make money every time. I have been in the business 16+ years and I am still trying to improve things so I can make more money. Recently I started tracking lost equipment cost. for years I have been loosing equipment, I really thought hey that’s part of doing business. Well I realized one month I lost 11 variable pressure wands. I started engraving their names in the wand now and giving them their own. I have not lost a single wand since. The little things can ad up very quick.


It seems that all the extra work sometimes does not out way all the headaches involved in running multiple crews. The money on running two or three crews will never be as much as the original equipment you ran.
Don’t get confused if you manage the crews right you will obviously make more but will it be as much as the first machine you ran?????(Maybe) remember you are now running two or three rigs. The original rig your not running, so it also has gone down on production. If you’re still running it full time you are sure to loose money because your employees will bury you. Your job now is not pressure washing but managing the crews. These crews will require maintenance, support & on going training.

Not my opinion just the facts. Just kidding, everyone has different circumstances these


------------------
Ron Marshal Phoenix AZ
1-888-fleetwash

 

[Jon]

Ron Marshall,

A question to you for all those who run crews. Is it legal or illegal to hold a deposit (x number of dollars) from employees to cover lost tools?

You idea of putting their names on wands proved where they were going before hand, now that you check them daily it is easy to find any missing tools and call that person to account, where is your wand? Duh, I guess I lost it won't work now as an answer.

Employee thief is one of the biggest problems all businesses have, from markets to department stores to the auto makers.



------------------
Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633

 

[Dave Olson]

We specialize in Pressure Washing, Water Blasting, Degreasing and Paint Removal. Vehicle fleets, kitchen exhaust systems, commercial and industrial projects. Also do some air (supply & return) duct cleaning and overhead vacuuming(industrial plants).

I have not picked just one area to specialize in because we are located in a very rural area. Really do not want to travel a long way to keep busy.

I spend to much on tools/toys to make very much $$

Haven't missed very many meals though!

Dave Olson



------------------
Tidy Powerwash Service, Inc. P.O. Box 781, Catlin, Illinois 61817 Phone 217-427-5557, Fax 217-427-2632 We are a commercial cleaning contractor serving East-Central Illinois and West Central Indiana since 1984. http://www.tps-inc.com/preswash.htm

 

[Scott Stone]

As with all rules there are exceptions. Congratulations Dave, you took the prize this time. I do specialize in fleets. That does not mean that I do not do the occasional odd duck job now and then. Sometimes, I stumble onto something that actually has nothing to do with fleets and still makes me money. I have a job like that now. One guy puts $2400 a month in my pocket and I just do the billing and supply the materials. (sorry, I don't want to go what it is. It is kind of laughable, and very unbelievable).
As for the running multiple crews, what Ron said. There is definitely a cost to having employees doing your work for you. Sometimes it can be rather costly. I have had employees lose $6000 a month in business for me in one month. A total of 7 different accounts. I am slowly getting them back, but, it still hurts. That is where the cost comes in. You have to remember that the time that you spend checking on and baby sitting employees has a cost, too. As for paying a flat rate, I have seriously considered it. I just worry about people going so fast that they do not do the type of work that I expect.

------------------
Any statement that I make about equipment, processes or your hair color is my own personal opinion. I usually base it on personal experience. If you disagree with me you are free to reply on both the BBS and by e-mail. If I am totally off base please explain why on the BBS so that we may all know why
Bus. Phone 480-834-3434
Cell Phone 602-509-9741

 

[AranServices]

. . . just a thought.

RE: Flat Rate per job employee payroll & job quality.

I have been evaluating this concept myself.
I am the subcontractor on 99% of my work. I am getting ready to put on a second crew in January. As a sub I get a percentage of the bid. In this situation, I have got to come to certain terms where employees & I make enough $$$. The only way I can see it working is to pay by the job. In most cases I can't really afford to pay 2 extra hours in any given night, and I must be sure that the job is done the right way the first time.

The insight I am coming up with is simple.
IF the job is NOT done perfect enough to thrill the customer - they got to go back & fix it the next night and do not get paid any more for the extra time spent. It seems to be a workable motivator with a quality control factor in place.

... just my 2-cents!



------------------
Cleaning America - One Job At A Time!

E-MAIL: aran@bellsouth.net
Our URL: http://easypath.to/pressurewashing

 

[bgbrew01]

I can sympathize with those of you who have had problems loosing equipment. Although I haven't really ran into that problem much as a PW. When I was in graduate school I managed the crews of my father's electrical company. Many of us do not realize how lucky we have it as contractors who do not have to worry about materials, which by the way is a major cost in running an electrical business. On any job we would do of any real size I would have to figure the job on materials and add 15% which is fairly standard. Then I would have to add an additional 8% materials on that due to "lost" materials. I also would always bid in money for a new Dewalt drill and 2 hammers. I can not tell you how many hammers we lost in the two years I managed there, at least 45 for 12 employees!!

Anyway to solve this problem I started a weekly inventory of equipment and materials per truck. If at the end of the week the truck had the same tools and had used an appropriate amount of materials for the week I would do something for them. What we would usually do is come back two hours early on Friday and I would get us some beers and we would sit around and strip the plastic/rubber off of the scrap wire that was left over for the week. I would take this to be recycled and I would split the cash between the crews who had the appropriate inventory. This usually ended up being an extra $20-30 per person for the week.

This cost me the price of the recycled copper a fairly decent little chunk of change each week ($150-200 sometimes even more). However, the first decent sized job we did, for about $70,000, this policy ended up saving us almost $2500!! I never dreamed we would save that kind of money. It also helped to build a good employee relationship.

The plan I was talking about for the flat rate per job only will work in certain situations. We only use it when I can be fairly certain how long it should take to clean for the job. This is why I do it for restraunts. These are the ones we clean each week and I know that they should be able to it in roughly an hour. So I am basically paying them $10 an hour, however, I am getting more for my money.

I agree with you Ron on the quality of work. I can not tell you how many jobs we have gotten off of another companies poor quality of work or more importantly poor quality of customer service and relations. Even if you are doing a wonderful job for someone, but they do not care much for you personally or they do not hear from you every so often they are likely to go to another PW if they come by.




------------------

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Jon,

Every rig has two wands, employees are instructed to use their own wand unless theirs breaks. At the end of shift they tell their supervisor its broken. it will be replaced the same day. Long ago I marked other tool and things that each employee is personally responsible for with paint. Everyone has different color paint. I don’t charge employees for most things. I have lost a lot of telephones. If and employees honest and says they lost it and they have not lost many tools I replace it. If I have an employee that is loosing tools all the time, I fire them. I don’t know if it legal or not to charge them and if it is,( don’t tell me. ) I dont check Wands daily, this was Implemented to prevent daily checks.

hope this helps Jon

Dave-------theirs the keyword (((((((((ruralllllllllllllllllll)))))))))))


I would probably take what I could get if I lived in a rural area too. Don’t get me wrong I could do fleets, its my choice not to because of the headaches that incur. I love flat work, hood cleaning, duct cleaning, fire restoration, graffiti removal & nine thousand other things you can do are fine for other guys.
Like most if we stumble on certain perfect high profit jobs we do them. I know there are days that you think if I had enough of these kinds of jobs I would not fool with the others. If you don’t then you are just a better manager than maybe you even realize. A long time ago I gave up trying to cater to everyone and running my self to death. We also have guys like Scott that are good at what they do and have fleet washing down. If I tried to compete with Scott right now he would bury me. My rigs are set up for one thing. We have many pressures washing companies here in the area. (Hundreds) maybe ten in the phone book. Many of them specializing in one thing making that perfect and making it hard to compete in my world.

Dave, I know you understand just trying to make my point, I do understand yours. That’s great you can and have the will to entertain so many things. I am just glad that I don’t have too.

Aran

I have tried it and if you send them back and don’t pay them they might even screw you harder. Come on guys lets face it if you have an employee that wont work hourly and do the job, what make you think he will when you pay him piece work. That’s a person you don’t need. If I have an employee that’s not cutting the mustard, get rid of him or her. Isn’t this subject that simple. Come on were trying to figure out how we can make our employees motivated. How about you pay them to do their fricking job. And they do it well you give them a raise. If they don’t perform there gone bye bye.

I have had people that I could do piece work with but they were out standing employees and I made more money paying them by the hour.

I give bonus money on certain jobs and if the weekly production is up or at where we are trying to keep it my key people get bonus money for baby siting well that week.

I think it crazy that where even talking about how we can manipulate someone into doing there job. That’s just how I feel about it. Sorry


Arans nice web site I visited you a couple of weeks ago. Just trying to stop you from making mistakes I made years ago. Oh this might work if your talking about fully sub contracting. That’s a whole different ball game.
Let’s not confuse subcontracting with employee piecework.

bigbrew

Keep in mind your talking about skilled laborers. Big difference between some of the people you get to apply for a pressure washing position.


------------------
Ron Marshal Phoenix AZ
1-888-fleetwash

[This message has been edited by Ron Marshal (edited October 22, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ron Marshal (edited October 22, 2000).]

 

[Jon]

Ron,

Thanks for clarifying things for me, now I understand better how you control your equipment. One question Ron, I assume you used high heat paint to keep it on, yes or no?

As to the others, the more you guys talk the more I can learn and not make the same errors you do, I say errors as when I was in the uniform business as management we had a saying, " the workers make mistakes but us guys in management make errors, it always blew their minds trying to figure that one out

Jon

------------------
Beep beep, the OPC Roadrunner coming through.

Jon Fleischer
Oasis Pressure Cleaning
(909) 792-2247
Fax (909) 792-5633

 

[David Saulque]

I specialize and run multi crews. To do this you must develop a manager/owner/sales approach to the field. I delegate to my managers and hold them to the fire if thing go not as planned. I plan as if we are to have problem, thus everything has a backup factor. I press for quality jobs rather than completed jobs-however I schedule 2 jobs per crew per night based on history times. They must do it right the first time, or they redo on there time or fix the mistake. I review films of the jobs so that the cards are cut. Each crew must film certain selected sections of the job along with the store clock.

To be able to service the chains you must be able to handle the load and single crews just can't cut it. Single start up crews tend to push for times, I challenge speed even with my crews-slow down and do it right.

Having employees is at times like having a herd of horses. Without a tight rein you have no control. What are the other options-none. You must hire good crew managers and hungry workers.

I have good luck with managers that are over 50 and workers with a new wife and a child. I have had no turnover in two years. This is not to say, we have no issues-just they are more manageable.

Just my $1.00 worth.

David

------------------

 

[Dan S]

hey it's me DAN.............
i have been so so so busy and im sorry i havent taken the time to write and at the very least say hi but im really not into typing unless it's an invoice lol
now to the replys @ hand .....
for you guys that have employees i think its great .lots of headaches but non the less great
but fer me its solo all the way . and i have also read replys about people blowing about how much $$ they make and if they blow about it then they are lying. to which by the way i agree .. BUT for being a solo man i make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ well i wont BLOW. and i love it no body to worry about just MEEEEEEEEE..
AND AS I SAID EARLER I THINK THAT IT IS GREAT THAT THOSE OF YOU WHO D0 HAVE EMPLOYEES ,,,,,,MY HATS GO OFF TO YA...

------------------
have a great day and GOD bless!!!!!