Contractors / PWNA / IWCA

<font color=e87400><b>Read post 1st.</b> Do you feel that having the Joint convention

  • Is a good decision & will help our industry

    Votes: 11 33.3%
  • Is a Bad decision & may increase competitive pressure in our industry

    Votes: 6 18.2%
  • Is something that you couldn't careless about.

    Votes: 8 24.2%
  • Is something worth more thought

    Votes: 4 12.1%
  • Doesn't matter on our businesses as contractors one way or the other

    Votes: 4 12.1%

  • Total voters
    33
Status
Not open for further replies.

Cody

New Member
<font color=e87400>
<p>Fellow Pressure Cleaning Contractors. It has recently come to my attention that this year the PWNA is hosting it’s <a href="http://www.pwna.org/convention_shows/annualshows.htm" target="_blank">2004 Annual Seminar</a> as a Joint convention with the IWCA (International Window Cleaners Association)

<p>Frankly I am somewhat dismayed at this on multiple levels. PWNA is supposed to be an organization for the POWER WASHING CONTRACTORS! The PWNA was supposedly formed to assist the Power Washing contractor advance & gain a Competitive edge over others within the industry & to add a bit of distinction to it’s members.

<p>Why in the world would ANY Power Washing Contractor want to introduce the Window Cleaning Industry to ours? Perhaps some don’t realize the impact that this could have on our/your business.

<li><I>For the residential guys probably not much but perhaps some. Your typical residential window cleaners may find that they can easily add Pressure Cleaning to their service base thus cutting out some residential work for Power Washing Contractors. Not much grant it, but some
<li>Now for the Commercial guys it could have a lot of impact. The window cleaners that will be at this seminar will be ones that have A) had some success & are primarily commercial B) are in the infant stages of their biz & probably have the financial position to diversify their market & C) are local to say some 200 miles of the seminar & are perhaps not really successful in window cleaning, thus a diversified market may offer them a very attractive picture. </I>
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<p>What does this mean to us. Well, the window cleaning business is based largely on volume. They have to clean a lot of windows to make a buck. By being volume they have many commercial customers. What do you suppose the result will be of these guys being further introduced to our industry? I say further because after doing some research I found that
the ICWA boast approximately 650 members <I>probably twice the size of PWNA, maybe three times</I> Of those 650 members 290 list Pressure Cleaning <a href="http://www.iwca.org/search/search.htm" Target="_blank">, <i>go here & type "PRESSURE" in the search box</i></a>, as an additional service that they offer. The current markets & market position of these 290 is unknown to me, however I would bet the majority are more engaged in window cleaning than pressure cleaning. Anyway, that’s already 290 of the IWCA members that are positioned to have an adverse effect on your business from information that they acquire at the upcoming trade show!

<p>Everybody that has ever been to a trade seminar will attest to the fact that when you leave one you tend to be a little hyped up to go out and sell some jobs. Often you’re hyped to perhaps pursue a new market. How do you think the window guys will react? They are going to have access to all of the same pressure cleaning hype as the Pressure Cleaning Contractors that will be there. They will be seeing dollar signs galore. Most will already have a vast commercial client base. Commercial clients would prefer to do business with as few contractors as possible. Thus the window cleaners will gain a slight edge on many pressure cleaners. Now of course you could go learn to be a window cleaner also, but do you really want to? Window cleaning is a VOLUME lowball business. IF one customer decides to cut you because you don’t do windows too are you going to say “OK, I can do your windows too†you could say that & you could do it, but what do you suppose your profit will be versus the hassle to do it. You or an employee will have to go our weekly, bi-weekly or whatever & clean windows on a business for $10-$30 bucks. The time it takes you to make that money you could make $60-$100 pressure cleaning.

<p>Now, for the PWNA as an organization this is a good thing. By introducing us to them it furthers the awareness of the PWNA to others thus having the potential to increase the PWNA’s membership base. For the people that get paid to
run the PWNA this good, for vendors within the PWNA this is also good. It gives them further reach of marketing. <I>You think vendors aren’t all for this, they’re probably more interested in the ICWA than the PWNA members. The sales to the ICWA members probably have more potential be complete packages, trailer packages etc. Vendors will love
that! I’m not knocking the vendors here, if I was a vendor I would be all for it too!</I>

<p><b><font size=+1>WHY are they doing it?</font></b> Well my guess would be they are doing it for a few reasons.
<li> #1 Reason would probably be because the PWNA executive director Jack Pitzer is also the executive director for the IWCA. How convienient eh. By grouping our two organizations together he’s effectivenly killing 2 birds with one stone! He either doesn’t realize the ramifications of this act on “our†businesses or he doesn’t care!

<p>So as you can see, this is good for.

<li>PWNA/ICWA Executive Director because it makes his job a lot easier only having to plan one convention for both of “his†organizations

<li>The Vendors – This will add new perspective customers to their database.

<li>The ICWA – It will offer them intensive access to information & materials to “EXPAND†upon their current business into another industry sector, which they are already “positioned†for which with probably 90% of them will offer them higher yield on labor & overhead!

<p> For the Power Washing contractor however, which is what the PWNA is really supposed to be for, this is nothing that can help us ~v~ the “potential†harm that it could do to us. If it cost ONE Power Washing Contractor one contract it’s too high a price, and rest assured it will. If you are thinking “Well, Cody, maybe I’d like to do windows†well I can help you there. You can learn all you want by just going to your local janitorial store. There they will have all the latest in Hi-Tech squeegee’s & super duty mop buckets & those places usually have at least one field sales rep who works on commission so they will be more than happy to assist you in the proper techniques on cleaning for a streak free window.

<p>In addition to all the above consider what he ICWA will bring to the table for this event & of that what applies to you. Squeegees & Mop buckets! Yeah, they will probably have all sorts working at heights stuff, buckets trailers/trucks, gangs, perhaps some window tinting / window armor & such, but of all of that what do you think you will be able to add to you current business? A Squeegee & a mop bucket, if you want to get hi-tech add a brush & a 2nd mop bucket, that’d be the equivalent of adding a surface cleaner & a hotbox to a PW rig!

<p>To further add to my own personal dismay I found the following paragraph on the PWNA web-site. I underlined the bit
I have trouble with.
<br>
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<br>
<i>The primary goal of the organization is to advance the interests and concerns of its members. The PWNA promotes a highly professional, responsible image of the <u>window cleaning professional</u>. The PWNA, through its various programs, helps its members to develop that image.</i>
<br>
<br>
<hr color=e87400>

<p>On that page that is the first reference of who the PWNA is for. It may be a typo but it lets you know what someone is thinking. Go read it for yourself at the <a href="http://www.pwna.org/membership/membership.htm" Target="_Blank">membership webpage</a> It’s the 2nd paragraph down.

</br>

<p>Is the PWNA for POWERWASHERS or is it now turning into a something else. With our current Executive Director being the Executive Director of the ICWA as well perhaps the PWNA is being steered into a direction that is not the best for it’s “CONTRACTOR†members. Where is this going to end up. Will this turn into a General Cleaning Association &/or will future seminars be hosted Jointly too</I> That’s going to go over real well. Lets just go an get everyone into it then. Window Cleaners, Janitors, Sweepers, Carpet Cleaners, Land Scapers, Floor Cleaners the works. Nothing like starting an organization for Pressure Cleaners to further Power Washing Contractors business advancements than to introduce our industry to all the people that can compete in it as well or better than we can. Janitorial companies could put us in a hurt locker as well as Sweeping companies. Like I had said previously about window cleaners. They are already positioned with the customer base & customers prefer to deal with fewer contractors as a general rule.


<p>Anyone that finds this alarming please take a stance. I am not a member of the PWNA but their actions are affecting me. They are affecting you too. If you are a CONTRACTOR and feel this is threatening or a perversion of “our†industry then take a stance. If you are a Member of the PWNA shout out about it. If enough members take a stance against this there may be a chance of thwarting it before it's too late. There is probably little chance of stopping this convention, the ball is already in motion & commitments have already been made. Any PWNA Members seeing this even remotely as I do, as not a good thing, should really take a stand-off position towards it. Tell the PWNA that you will not attend this seminar if it remains as it is. If the commitment is in concrete perhaps the convention could still be simultaneous however split apart, PWNA this way, ICWA that way. At the very least this can be stopped from ever happening again.

<p>Remember this is ALL ABOUT CONTRACTORS. PWNA is an organization that WAS FORMED FOR POWERWASHING CONTRACTORS. Not for Vendors, not for manufactures & definitely not for window cleaners. Hence the name PWNA – <font size=+2>POWER WASHERS</font> of NORTH AMERICA

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<p>Now, with all that said, whats your opinion? I just can't get past this joint convention being a bad decision. I've been rolling it around in my head now for nearly a week since I first became aware of it taking place. It just seems dumb. Think about it some. PWNA sports 320 members ~v~ the IWCA's 650. That's more than double. That's offering "our" industry / knowledge / practices / methods to a boat load of people!

<p>So think I have blown this all out of proportion or think it's right on track!

<p>I killed some of this post. I had had it set with email links to all of the PWNA board members so that anyone that thought the Joint Convention idea was bad could respond such to them in one pop. Then I considered this was perhaps overkill. If this post gets some activity leaning towards the direction of the of Joint Conv = Bad. Then I will submit another regarding petitioning it.

Thanks For Reading
Cody.

PS Those of you who go to other boards, how bout linking this to them to get additional feedback on it. <i>Once again,, TOO many boards :)</i>
 

Shadow

New Member
Cody,

You do know that they are run by the same management company. This will make it easier for them to have one meeting in one place. It will introduce the two trades to each other and may cause people to pursue more than one market and increase membership for them on both sides.

Dan,
What can the PWNA do for you? Good question, as I have been trying to figure that one out too. They want us to sign up and then market them to our customers saying that we are members and we are better. Anyone can buy a membership good or bad, so what does that help us?
 

Shadow

New Member
Originally posted by Cody
<font color=e87400>
<p><p>Remember this is ALL ABOUT CONTRACTORS. PWNA is an organization that WAS FORMED FOR POWERWASHING CONTRACTORS. Not for Vendors, not for manufactures & definitely not for window cleaners. Hence the name PWNA – <font size=+2>POWER WASHERS</font> of NORTH AMERICA

<hr color=e87400>

Cody,
What makes you believe it was made for us, and not for some money hungry people that get all the membership dues? If it is for us, why do they not advertise more and promote themselves, instead of wanting us to sign up and do it?
 

timhays

New Member
i say **** em,let em do what they want,i left the painting business because of cutthroats and i will leave this one when the market becomes saturated as well.
i am finding it hard to get commercial accounts now because companies are coming in and doing the windows,pressure washing,cleaning carts,and welding them up replacing all damaged parts,wheels,plastic handle covers at one time,how the fu** can you compete or want to compete with that.
 
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Clean County

New Member
Cody,
You and I have complete different takes on this which doesn't make mine right and yours wrong and vise-a-versa.

I look at this as a neat Idea to at least give it a try to see how a joint convention can do. Nothing wrong with that for it has been done with other organizations I'm sure.

Its all about NETWORKING just like these bb's. I'm sure the PWNA won't make it a habit to have joint conventions every year but it will be interesting to see how this one pans out. I believe it is in Dallas next year and I am going to try to attend since I do Powerwashing and a little bit of Commercial Window Cleaning.

I do belong to the PWNA and I've always been a supporter of Organizations and Unions. Strength is and always will be in NUMBERS and Organizations/Unions are just that.

The lone guy in the end takes a beating because he is.....the Lone guy. No strength there.

I could go on but I've read your posts over the years and your mind is made up so I would be talking to a wall.

I will add that your posts are most of the time a very good read and very thought out. You come across as one who is pretty dam smart. With that being said its to bad that you don't support and Organization that is willing to support you.
 

Doc Reisman

PWNA President
Us vs. them the continued battle for the domination of the pressure cleaning industry. PWNA the nefarious ruler looking to create a negative environment for all.

I am not sure how many people actually believe this propaganda but it could not be further from the truth. I would love to sell everyone on the idea that PWNA & IWCA convention is the best thing since sliced bread but I would prefer to talk on the phone.

847-625-6300 ext 131 7am-5pm
847-922-4921 (cell) use after 5:00pm.
262-639-1812 home

In the history of PWNA we have never had a show this big with so much to offer our membership. Imagine, we have the strength of another organization to help pick up the bill. Conventions, speakers, and coordinating are not cheap or easy. This is no different then paying for couch and being put into first class for no additional cost

Do you think it is really the intention of IWCA members to steal our local business?
How much does it cost to start window cleaning compared to pressure cleaning?

I have no problem with criticizing PWNA because we can always use improvement. Let us work together constructively towards progress. One of the reasons we started our own business is for control and your membership to PWNA also gives you a stake of control. My door is always open and I am willing to listen to any suggestions; exercise your right.
 

Larry L.

PWN TEAM - Moderator Emeritus
One of the reasons we started our own business is for control and your membership to PWNA also gives you a stake of control.

I think our government is doing a great job in controling our environment,it's our tax dallors at work.All I see is the pwna wanting as you say control of the pwoerwashing trade.Like Dan said the rich will get richer and I'll add the poor will get poorer.

Organizations/Unions have put alot of people out of work and some Organizations/Unions have put alot of people to work.Usually a Organization isn't good for the little man,its another way of pushing him farther out of business as in controling him.

I have nothing againest the pwna and what they stand for(control),everybody has a choice as to whether or not to help control others.Who knows what the outcome will be in the next 10,20,30,40 years from now,will the added cost to the powerwashing trade be worth it to the customer,they already complain about the high prices.

One Organization is trying to take your guns away from you and doing a pretty good job of it and if they prove fish have feelings in their lips Zebco may as will shut their doors.

Some Organizations are good some are bad,depends on which side of the fence your standing on as to either.
 

Doc Reisman

PWNA President
PWNA controls only what its membership allow it to control and if we look closely at the members it is made up of small companies. We are not the government nor do we have an endless line of money to draw from. All of our board and non-board (committee members) work countless hours for free to better PWNA and the industry.

I believe Clean County summed it up by stating we are stronger together then as individuals.

We are always looking for ways to improve PWNA and the industry. Comments and suggestions are continually encouraged. As I see many of you are passionate about our industry. I also feel that same passion.

Many of us are cut from the same cloth; we are not willing to sit on the sidelines silently and we like to get our hands dirty. I am asking if you are sincerely wanting the industry to improve lets work together.

I have posted my phone number and I always return my messages.
 

Dan S

New Member
Get involved HOW . send in $$$?

most of us dont want to spend the "georges" to watch some group make the rules and this is how we do things ... But how can we get involved without spending ? What is the PWNA doing with the money from the dues already ? What is done when we as a contractor need help on legal stuff? What about Ins.? What about buying power? What about ........ and the list can go and go ..

How much Money lays in the treasure? What is it being saved for? How much does the "main dude" make ? Cruise's that the members have to pay for anyways?????

What can the PWNA do FOR our business besides a "label" ???

No really what do we really get by being a member ?

and WHy cant anybody answer these Questions???????????
 

Doc Reisman

PWNA President
I am not sure how to help those individuals who do not wish to become members. PWNA may not be for everyone. Paying dues earns the membership the right to have a voice. If we were to say “most of us don’t want to spend the "Georges" to watch some group make the rules and this is how we do things ... But how can we get involved without spending ? “ to the BBB (Better Business Bureau) or Chamber of Commerce I think we would get the same response, join first.


I am not sure who the “Main Dudeâ€￾ is in reference to but if we are referring to the President of PWNA the position pays nothing. All board positions are paid nothing.

“Cruise's that the members have to pay for anyways?????â€￾

I am not sure what this last statement means. Did we have a cruise a few years back? Yes. Did each individual member pay his or her own way? Yes.


“What can the PWNA do FOR our business besides a "label" ???
No really what do we really get by being a member ?
and WHy cant anybody answer these Questions???????????â€￾

Maybe you are asking the wrong people, try calling head quarters or Please call me so I may answer your questions. Any of the numbers will work and if you miss me I return calls.

847-625-6300 ext 131
847-922-4921 cell
262-639-1812 home
 
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kjacques21

New Member
hey I am real new to the industry as a objective reader...
yes their is risk that window washing companies can enter your industry..but they dont need a conference to do that nor do we have to go to a conf. to get into window washing :)
as far as a industry organizationif you wan to join join if you dont dont if you are unhappy as a member quit.

If i where to join i'd join because i could recieve benefits of memebership...either access to info that made my business mpore $$$ or discounts as mentioned above...

I do think this web site is awesome and it's free! I just hope that after some time I have something to offer others...

I am a grat sales guy so if anyone needs advice here just email me Deck@adelphia.net

KK
 

Cody

New Member
<font color=e87400>Thanks for replying guys. I hope there are many more.

I posted this in an attempt to get feedback re: this particular issue -

<li>"Should the PWNA be affiliating itself with the IWCA & should they be involved with this Joint Convention?
<li>Is this an action that will contribute to the betterment of the Power Washing, "We/Us, contractors.

Please try to keep responses professional & within that parameter. I do not want to turn this into a PWNA bashing thread, so to speak. The PWNA isn't going away anytime soon thus it's going to be neccessary to act here with a certian amount of deplomacy.

If it can be brought to the board members attention that enough people are against the association with the IWCA then PWNA can take action to correct it. Thus, the PWNA can be used against the very thing that it has initiated. Which is one of the things that an organization is about. This sort of thing happens pretty often in organizations.

<hr color=e87400>

Note:
I want to interject a bit here about "Industries" An industry here is simply defined as a Marketable service & a Market to sell it too. That pretty much sums it up. Pressure Cleaning is the Service & Everyone is the Market. <i>From there you can break it down into sectors - Wood, Kitchen Hoods, Roofs, Flatwork, Trucks, etc etc..</i>

Now, increasing awareness of this industry to others is a double edge sword. One could argue that increasing the membership base of the PWNA, or holding this Joint Convention could add to the industry by:

A) getting more minds involved thus increasing the creative thinking within it thus more possible advancements in methods, processes & technology.
B) getting more people involved creating more selection & diversification for the consumers, market, thus increasing competitive pricing to offer the consumers lower overall service cost.

In the above "A" may at first glance seem to have a certian amount of viability but it really doesn't for the Contractors that are currently successful & in business. For future contractors, maybe some. But current, not really primarily because "B" comes along & nips it at the bud. Whenever you increase the amount of people servicing a market, industry, you are also causing more competition which will inevidbly dropping prices & reduce profits margins.

When people say "That's a GREAT industry" or "That's a tough market / industry" What is really being referred to is Profit Margins & Competitive base. The higher the Profits the better the industry. The less the competition the better Sales to Calls ratio, thus the better the market. The more the competition the more you have to market, which increases overhead & decreases profits, in order to get calls. The more you have to compete the more that prices will become competitive the more prices get competitive the more profits will drop.

Quick Scenario. - 30 companies all operating, marketing & exuding the same professionalism, what sets them apart? In the end it will be price. Hence prices will fall.

I defined this here becuase of my references to "our industry" in my initial posting. What makes this Joint endeavor such a mistake in my eyes is that we/they are not only creating more awareness of our industry to another, it's being done to to an industry that is "already positioned" to market "OUR" services to "OUR" customers.

Why in the world would anyone agree to this is beyond me. Like I stated previously, the impact may be next to nothing, however the impact could be substancial. My question here is "why risk it". For the people that clean primarily commercial properties for companies that hold multiple properties this could have a devastating impact. Losing only one customer could cost them THOUSANDS, perhaps tens or thousands.

You who support the PWNA & It's decision to have this Joint endeavor please ponder this:

You support the PWNA, thus you support it's members. Now you support an alliance that has "potential" to cost some, perhaps many, of your fellow members business, the very members that you are supposed to be supporting with such an organization. Keep in mind too that just because this may not affect your "sector" it may affect others. If someone is a Truck Washer I can see where they wouldn't give a h00t about hosting this convention with the ICWA since it's a big push going from Windows to Trucks however, the truck washers may not be too keen on say having this with the Automobile Detailers Assoc.

Looking at this from an industry view point it is somewhat a matter of perspective. My perspective happens to be from an industry "sector" that's probably most vulnerable to the issue at hand!

Cody
 

Larry L.

PWN TEAM - Moderator Emeritus
PWNA controls only what its membership allow it to control and if we look closely at the members it is made up of small companies.

What does the membership allow it to control now?

It seems strange small companies agreeing to join forces outside their own trade knowing one day they may have to clean windows to keep accounts.Its the reason most in this trade does only powerwashing enstead of cleaning windows.Same goes for the painters,powerwashing is our trade not cleaning window or painting.


Us vs. them the continued battle for the domination of the pressure cleaning industry. PWNA the nefarious ruler looking to create a negative environment for all.

You may be closer to the truth than you know.

pwna says they're trying to better the industry but turns a deaf ear to the Q'tions ask of them.Several several times the boards light up in what would better the pwna but they do not listen or get the deaf ear.



I believe Clean County summed it up by stating we are stronger together then as individuals.


Maybe but your standing on the stump along.

Joining forces with the Detailers would be better than joining forces with window cleaners
 

Clean County

New Member
Cody,
Maybe you are over analizing(Spell check is not working) what is going on here. You are looking at this joint convention as the glass half empty instead of the glass half filled. Another words you are looking at it with a negative mindset.

The way your talking then why should anyone in this business network with each other especially thru these bb's since in the end they will try to run you out of town.

Just because a bunch of common businesses get together doesn't mean the are out to get each other. Yes some may think that way but most don't. Most go to these conventions to network and share idea's to help each other.

You may think that you know everything that there is to know in this business and somebody that you meet there has way better idea's that you could implement into your business.

I guess it come down to one's mindset. Either you believe in these Organizations or you don't.

I do and always will. I support Unions(Was a vice president of one) and Organizations because they are there to help out people with a common ground and if you don't like the direction that they are heading then try to make a positive difference then just Bad mouthing as some here love to do. THat never ever works!! Doing something to make a difference always ends up working even though it can take time.
 

Mike Hughes

New Member
Originally posted by Dan S

but NOW they want to join forses with another org................ WHY numbers? so they can say LOOK we now have over 500 members it took us 10 years but look at us now .........

in 5 years people will forget about the "merge" and think that the pwna grew ............ but we will know better HUH?


Dan,

You are misunderstanding............the PWNA is simply having a joint conference with the window cleaners...........mostly so we can get a better deal on the hotel, food, and get better speakers (they cost $$$$). By sharing this burden with IWCA, it will be better for everyone.

At no time has the PWNA considered merging with the IWCA, and it is not likely to happen anytime in the future.
 

Cody

New Member
Originally posted by Clean County
if you don't like the direction that they are heading then try to make a positive difference then just Bad mouthing as some here love to do. THat never ever works!! Doing something to make a difference always ends up working even though it can take time.

<font color=e87400> John, That's all I'm trying to do!

Have I bad mouthed the PWNA in my postings?

Sure It's no secret the way I feel about the sharing of information. If you want to use that as me bad mouthing the PWNA then that's your decision, however it's only a perspective & not the case.

I saw your before & after pics in the Cleaner Times Issue. Absolutely Beautiful! I was going to contact you as to how you did it. That siding looked like it was sun baked rather than molded. You did a beautiful job on it.

I don’t recall what area of cleaning you operate in but say you are into just wood. Take those before & after pics you have there. Add them to your marketing materials run an aggressive marketing campaign you’ll do great.
<li>Now go to ALL your competitors & give them all you marketing materials that you have been succeeding with.
<li>Give them all the knowledge that you have acquired.
<li>Take them with you on jobs & teach them how to do it “rightâ€￾. <li>Get them all running the same marketing campaigns as you are. Save them the aggravation of trial & error

Really, go & do it. Tomorrow start making calls to your competitors call them ALL! Being in Long Island you probably have at least a hundred of them there that could use your help. Help them out, just as I have stated above. I'm not kidding. You want to help people right? There's strength in #'s right? If you train all those guys then you will have greater local numbers think of all the strength you'll have! Hop to it!

After you do all that let us know
A) what your call response & sales to calls ratio is compared to what it was before you trained all of your competitors.
B) when you're scheduling the auction for your equipment!

As far as Networking. I'm pro networking, however I am NOT pro teaching every Tom that wants to get into the business how to do so. There's a difference, for me at least. When people refer to networking I believe that there is usually a common parameter that is met for the situation. In our case networking should be Professional Powerwashers networking with Professional Powerwashers. However what is happening is we are having Professional Powerwashers networking with Newbies & now another association which may not network back. The mere act of teaching others how to operate in this field is not networking it's business suicide.

Businesses are always out to get each other wether they realize it or not, it's the nature of the beast. Every bid that you give has a pretty fair chance of being bounced off another. Every bid you win someone else loses. Thus you are in effect out to out do the other business. Hence "you are out to get them. If you aren't then when you make a bid you should simply write on it "This bid is void if you obtain ANY other bids for this work. We are not in the business of taking business from our competitors" That'd go over real well eh. Ridicuouls yes, out in left field NO!

Businesses are about making money. Whereas I agree that the IWCA folks would not be out to get us, just as any others are not out to get us. However it is business & business isn't personal. Being business, the main goal is to make a profit. Be assured, if you tell pretty much ANY person <i>(neighbor, friend, business associate, mother)</i> in business how to increase their profits while still operating within their same industry they are going to do it! And what affect it will have on YOU will only be second to their gains. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

I know that I don't know jack about this business. I know my particular niche & that's it. I don't know much about chems outside of what I currently use. I don't know ALOT! I have cleaning questions ALL of the time that I would love to pose on these forums that I don't simply becuase I don't want the answers posted on open forums for the world too read. What I do know though is Business, Business Math, & marketing.

What this ALLLL comes down to is NUMBERS. Myself I am a math fanatic. The math don't lie! Our entire global economy is based on Supply & Demand. Supply & Demand is based on math.

The need & the market is here for pressure cleaning. The demand is emmense at this time. The math dictates that with fewer suppliers for pressure cleaning service available there will be a greater demand for their individual service. On the flip side of that the math also dictates that with more suppliers for the service the demand for the "individual" supplier will go down. This is an inevidible FACT! It is carved math!


EVERYONE here has a threshold as to what they will openly divulge. All of you have some little secret(s) some little golden nugget of information that you cling to as if your life depends on it. It's something that "YOU" feel gives you a competitive edge. Do you feel this is wrong? If no then why point your finger at me & say I am a bad person merely because I feel that nearly everything that I do is that golden nugget.

If you disagree, then when someone says "Hi I'm new to the business & need some help. I want to clean driveways & houses & wood & trucks etc etc I don't know anything about the business" why don't you just send them everything they want. Take all of your data <i>(marketing statistics - (from yellow pages, news papers, direct mail, pop-outs etc... of what works & what doesn't, what literature gets the best response, how many calls you recieve from what size add), sells closures, literature, methods, chemicals you use & for what, sales ratios, your local area pricing structures, office expenses, labor expenses etc etc etc...)</i> and send it to them. Chances are all of this information is right at your fingertips right now. Why not just take all that & put into a nice "helpthenewbie.zip" file & then everytime a newbie needs help send it to them. You don't because you hold alot of that info sacred. Well so do I.

As far as Organizations are concerned. All I will say right now is that if the PWNA were to initiate criteria for membership they would have more potential to be more avantageous to the seasoned contractors. Criteria like minimum 3 years in the business, checks with the BBB & Law enforcement that verified members. Currently I don't think these checks are inplace. I could be wrong about this I will check it out on Monday, or maybe a PWNA board member could shed some light on it. Doc Mike?? What about it?

Cody

PS FOR anyone that read this before I came back & Edited it sorry for the confusing read. I've been back & forth a few time to it while doing other things.
 
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Jon

New Member
I expect an Email or phone call from Cody after this post but as long as he does not wake my up fine, otherwise he will be talking to a partly deaf grouch!


I do not see it as a threat to our industy, most window cleaners are not about to invest the money it cost to buy a hot water pressure washer and do harder work then they do now.

I network with window cleaners here, not one wants to do pressure washing, I give them leads and when one of their accounts needs concrete cleaned they give my card out for me.

For me it works fine, for others it depends on many things, first only deal with window cleaners who only clean windows and nothing else.

Two who work you butt off with pressure washing when you can do windows easier?

Dan you always ask What will the PWNA do for you, ok I'll answer that question for you, NOTHING since you don't beleive in it nor would you join so you would not benefit from it.

You have heard this many times before but you get out of things what you put into it, period.

You want your equipment to always be in top shape, then you put time in it to keep it maintained and in good running condition, right?

If you were a member and you did get involoved you would get something out of it, again what all depends on what you put in.

Not saying JOIN, not saying try it because for one you won't, for two if you ever wanted to see for yourself knowing you I doubt you would tell anyone you did join.

Why do many of you guys feel PWNA is fair game to pick on? I know after I left the organization the first time I knocked it for a year or so, could see all it did was harm me so I stopped.

Don't ask why I rejoined, it is not important but I will say it is not an ego thing with me, I am not nor have I ever been on an EGO TRIP.

Jon
 

Clean County

New Member
Cody,
Of course some secrets that we have concerning this business will stay just that..Secrets.

A big point that your missing is this...It comes down to the individual in this business and no matter what, nobody can change who you are. They may learn alot of the secrets that some veterans such as yourself may have but that doesn't mean that they will have the same work ethic that you have or the art of selling a job that you possessed.

In business its all about the HUSTLE, THE QUALITY OF WORK and YOUR WORK ETHIC. This is something that no one can give or take away from you. Only you can change this for better or worse. THis is the same for everybody. This is why I don't worry to much about the "OTHER" guy. I feel that I am the BEST and even though I'm probably not because there is always someone better, I still feel like I do top quality work and thru my reputation I can charge more on Residential jobs. Commercial jobs this is a little tougher to do but it still can be done if done correctly such as always being on time, doing quailty work etc. etc. etc. Once again its about the hustle.

This is the LOOK I take in this business. Life is to short to constantly worrying about the other guy.

Look at it like this....We are the greatest Nation....Why?? Becuase we WORK TOGETHER and man does this Country make money. The Money you make here Powerwashing would be considered a Kings(OK slight exaggeration) Ransom in Hatti where the average person makes about $500/yr.

As for Dan S. his mind is closed completely so no point in going there...
 
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