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Oil Based vs. Water Based
- Thread starter deckrock
- Start date
CaroliProWash
New Member
deckrock said:
Oil is best.
PressurePros
New Member
Sherwin Williams is telling people that because they are not carrying oil based sealers anymore and they don't want to lose you as a customer. Water borne sealers provide no conditioning for the wood, are a pain to work with (lap marks and drips are visible), the color fades quickly and worst of all, they often contain silicone which is wicked to remove.
For outdoor projects stay oil/alkyd based
For outdoor projects stay oil/alkyd based
Tim Lynch
New Member
Waterborne products encapsulate the wood and don't allow it to breath, no oil results in dry-ed out wood. The removal damages the wood, one of my jobs this week was a waxed deck water based product a local company keeps pushing for redwood!!!! They just keep adding more on top of the past years till they say see yeah! and the customers left with a problem deck. Today I finish the deck and it was in bad shape the wood is blown and grooved from the past guys but so far the customer is happy!
Stay with oil! Easy to remove and easy to work with and best for wood, 6 months extra a customer may get equals more to redo the nest time. It does not balance out.
CA air laws are trying to kill all oil based products thats when I start thinking of other lines of biz.
Stay with oil! Easy to remove and easy to work with and best for wood, 6 months extra a customer may get equals more to redo the nest time. It does not balance out.
CA air laws are trying to kill all oil based products thats when I start thinking of other lines of biz.
deckrock said:
Tim Lynch
New Member
deckrock said:
I can use a pad on two jobs of similar color, only during the same day. I pick up the 8" padco pads for 3 bucks a pop. Washing these disposable pads is a waste of time and labor. On rough decks and large decks I Will use 2 at times.
The cost is in my final bill, I always break the Labor and Materials for the customer as this is an approximate type Biz, So at the end of the Job the customer See's 1 Stain pad 3.00 on the bill with the sealer & cleaner etc.
The handles save ( Tip ) Find some of the pads with the Black Handles the red ones fall apart after a while the black ones do not. I have some that are over 5 years old.
Enjoy! If you have never used a pad you will be in for a treat.
PressurePros
New Member
Tim, do you apply with the pad or spray and then use the pad to backbrush? Those pads don't hold any sealer for me.
flip houser
New Member
Oil is like the best thing for wood, but it seems to me that dealers are going away from it. At least you can still get oil based primers for painting so putting latex paint over it isn't bad, but I hope they don't stop making oil based stains.
Not to hijack the thread but, are you guys saying you use disposable pads over brushes and rollers? I would have never thought about doing that, but then I'm not using any sprayers or power rollers, are you spraying and just cutting in with the pads or using the pads over the whole thing? I never got used to using pads but maybe I just used crappy pads.
Not to hijack the thread but, are you guys saying you use disposable pads over brushes and rollers? I would have never thought about doing that, but then I'm not using any sprayers or power rollers, are you spraying and just cutting in with the pads or using the pads over the whole thing? I never got used to using pads but maybe I just used crappy pads.
PressurePros
New Member
I don't like the plain pads. I must have used something different than what Tim speaks of... I use lambswool pads as they hold more sealer, drip less, and get into cracks and valleys better.
flip houser
New Member
You wash the lambswool ones right? I thow out roller covers when I use oil paints/stains, but I wash my brushes.
I could see moving fast without the splatter from a roller with that kind of a pad.
I could see moving fast without the splatter from a roller with that kind of a pad.
PressurePros
New Member
It depends on the deck. I get refills for about $4.50. If the deck is light duty and hasnt tore up the pad at all, I will toss it in a bucket of thinner. For the most part they are built into the cost of a job and the refills are disposable.
Everyone has their opinion !! people should do what works for their customers as well as their bottom line IMO. that said , I use water based stains . Oil is nice for the initial finish. However, I have found it to be a dirt magnet on horizontal surfaces soon after. I have not tried any oil based products for many years so I am not qualified to judge the current crop of stains but I can defend the success of water based stains. www.deckdoctorpressurewashing.com is my website and all jobs are water based stain. There are many here who adimately say their product is the best. Its just human nature . I say try as many different products as you can until you find a formula that satisfies you and your customers. I am currently testing an oil based stain on my own deck steps and will judge it for next years customers.
PressurePros
New Member
For me its more what is best for the wood. I consider what I do a craft. While a water borne sealer may look okay it does nothing for the wood in terms of conditioning. Most water borne sealers are loaded with acylics that cannot be stripped off. Below is an exceprt from http://www.woodsealants.com/articles/why-wood-weathers.html
"For wood, in most southern states, the sun is Public Enemy #1. The sun is directly responsible for the intense drying effects leading to cupping, curling, cracking, splitting and surface checking. Water-borne treatments do little to alter these natural processes, but some are effective at controlling mold and mildew. Therefore, oil-borne treatments are recommended since they replenish wood oils that have been oxidized by the sun or washed out by the rain. Proper high flash point parraffinic oils (the new industry standard) are not only oxidation resistant, but also do not contribute to wood flammability (a consideration mainly for wood roofs). Though somewhat more expensive, oil-borne treatments are recommended over water-borne materials because of their superior performance. Wood is the pipeline for nutrients. The wood fiber is basically a series of straws that shrink and grow with moisture loss and absorption. By absorbing oil, these straws tend to regain part of their original size which reduces internal wood stresses as well as the volume available to be occupied by water upon exposure to rain or any other moisture source."
PS: It is not actually the sun that causes wood to warp per se, it is the rapid change in moisture content. The sunn exacerbates the problem by drying wood out quickly.
"For wood, in most southern states, the sun is Public Enemy #1. The sun is directly responsible for the intense drying effects leading to cupping, curling, cracking, splitting and surface checking. Water-borne treatments do little to alter these natural processes, but some are effective at controlling mold and mildew. Therefore, oil-borne treatments are recommended since they replenish wood oils that have been oxidized by the sun or washed out by the rain. Proper high flash point parraffinic oils (the new industry standard) are not only oxidation resistant, but also do not contribute to wood flammability (a consideration mainly for wood roofs). Though somewhat more expensive, oil-borne treatments are recommended over water-borne materials because of their superior performance. Wood is the pipeline for nutrients. The wood fiber is basically a series of straws that shrink and grow with moisture loss and absorption. By absorbing oil, these straws tend to regain part of their original size which reduces internal wood stresses as well as the volume available to be occupied by water upon exposure to rain or any other moisture source."
PS: It is not actually the sun that causes wood to warp per se, it is the rapid change in moisture content. The sunn exacerbates the problem by drying wood out quickly.