Questions for all the pros out there.

[Dragonslayer]

hey guys and gals, great BB. I have some questions to ask you all, if you dont mind. I am just now getting into the business, and would like to see if im doing it right. I have stained decks in teh past, and have had pretty good success with them (family decks). I bid two jobs today, and one person already oked it to be done. The other job is rather big, I hope I get it, and not screw things up. I am a full time firefighter, and am doing a deck and fence staining business on teh side for extra money. I love doing wood work, and take pride in the work I do. I am not one of those guys that slap on some stain and call it good. Anyway, on with my questions.

1. My first job i bid was a 16x12 PT deck with old thompsons sealer on it which is about 5 years old. The deck has some algae and mold to it, so i will probably be cleaning it before i apply the stain. It has 37' of railing, of which they only want the top rail finished, the ballisters they just want cleaned. I quoted them a price of $200 for everything. Im probably WAY low, but it is my first bid job. What would you use to just get the mold off, and what would you use to seal it. They just want a clear sealer, no stain.

2. Here's the big one. 240 sq ft deck, 59' of railing, 12 steps strip, clean, and stain = $500. Fence, 248' of 6' standard picket, with little bits of mold. Clean and stain $800. Is this too low, or does that bid sound right?

Thanks for the info guys and gals.

 

[Mike Gwas]

Your enthusiasm is there, GREAT.... Your pricing is way off... NOT GREAT...... All you new guys please stop pricing us out of business..... I get 10 calls a day for decks and houses and I have not done one in years because guys are doing it for peanuts.... STOP...... THINK..... Some of us try to make a living at this...... Your time HAS TO BE VALUABLE....... Beer money does not last.......

PS- Your big deck job sounds like $2000.00 to me.....

 

[Dragonslayer]

Just a couple questions.

How did I know this was going to happen. Some guy gets on here and starts to rail on me for pricing too low. THAT IS WHY I GOT ON HERE TO GET SOME ADVICE!!!! I in no way want to take the food out of peoples mouths. That is not my intention. These are the first two jobs I have EVER bid, and hopefully will not be the last. If anyone has any KIND advice to say, please let me know. If not, then so be it. :burn: :burn: :burn:

I thought this board was full of a bunch of nice guys willing to teach a new guy how to get in the business. If I wanted grief, I would have just asked my wife. Thanks alot.

 

[CaroliProWash]

Everybody breathe!

Dragon - Mike was not trying to give you grief, he, along with many others, are here to freely help you HOWEVER, there are alot of newbies getting in that are taking food off tables for others - even if unintentionally - I persoanlly applaud your first occupation, however, just to be in the pressure washing business for a little extra money hurts those of us who are doing it to support ourselves. I believe that most of the veterans suggest thoroughly researching this business before getting started to avoid just what has happened. With what you have priced your job at you have accomplished several things:

(1) You, as an inexperienced pw'er, are going to possibly not do the job correctly, damaging your reputation before you start. I say this because you can't just wash the deck to restain it because it has a little mildew & algae on it. QUOTE My first job i bid was a 16x12 PT deck with old thompsons sealer on it which is about 5 years old. The deck has some algae and mold to it, so i will probably be cleaning it before i apply the stain. It has 37' of railing, of which they only want the top rail finished, the ballisters they just want cleaned. There are proper procedures to stripping off failed stain, bringing the wood back to the proper Ph and applying stain. Measurements are crucial to estimating the amount of chemicals you will need to purchase and you must consider your time as the professional.

(2) Your pricing on that job - you're probably going to LOSE money by the time you get everything you need to do it properly and factor in your time, insurance, gasoline, etc...

(3) You have set yourself up to be doing large money making jobs for as Mike put it, PEANUTS.

Enthusiam about getting in the business is great and you seem to have plenty, but do some more research before jumping in with both feet. As I said, there are many many helpful folks on this and other bbs but you won't find as much help if they feel like you are going to be underbidding the industry.

Good luck

Celeste

 

[Mike Gwas]

Thank you Celeste,
I just have no time to type that much. My point to all is that your skills are worth more than you think. If you put your effort and time into it then someone should pay.... If quality work is your goal then get paid for it....... $100.00 house washes are a dime a dozen, don't fall into that category..... Price them high... The word "NO" is not a bad thing...... The words "I told you so" are sweet.....

 

[onecallpowerw]

Deck Restoration

The first deck you are way low on. From the size that you quoted, you should be at least $410. Also, I would not do a deck where the owner wants only partial work cleaned/stained. Remember.....When you leave a job, you want others to ask about it. Your work is your painting. Remember this.

Another words, if you do not get the WOW effect after completing a deck restoration...then you have failed.

The second deck you have quoted 453 sq ft. You are about $120 off target. You should at least be in the $600 range.

The fence is a different ball game. From the size you gave us, you are looking at 2976 sq ft. This includes both sides. Personally, I would not do it for less than $.80 per square. Most homeowners will not pay that much to have their fence done. But anyway, remember that stain either, sprayed, rolled, stain, pad or brushed is very expensive. Remember, you are buying the stain. You are at least looking at 20 gallons of stain just for the fence if you will be spraying. Only a little less if applied another way. So right off the bat you are looking at $400-$500 for stain. Just keep this in mind.

Hope this helps.

 

[CaroliProWash]

Thank you Celeste,
I just have no time to type that much. QUOTE]


LOL Mike - I wish I didn't have time to type that much - we're so soggy here we can't do a bloody thing and I'm bored slap out of my mind!

Celeste

 

[Dragonslayer]

You guys are right, I need to do some more research. Thanks for the advice, and sorry I blew up earlier.

I have been reading previous posts on pricing, and I think I have it down.

I was basically going on what a deck and fence builder told me. Now I know I need to charge more.

I still hope I get my first two jobs!!!!

 

[Aplus]

Most everybody underbids jobs now and then when they are new. First thing, you get valuable experience in bidding future jobs, and you learn how to actually do the job.

The trick is to make sure you don't do it again, and price accordingly. If you're just starting out, and you're not expecting to make a living at it, then you can afford mis-pricing once in a rare while, especially if you learn from it.

This is what I do for a living, so I can't afford to underbid too many jobs because I won't be able to pay my bills.

I know I get frustrated when I lose jobs here to kids charging .65 s/f, but then part of it is my fault for not doing a better job of selling.

 

[Dragonslayer]

And that is why I wanted some advice, so I can be competitive with my rates, and not hurt the business of the guys that do it for a living. I probably wont get most jobs I bid, just because Im honest with people and tell them Im just starting out. Im sure customers will want someone with experience, so they dont screw up their investment. But, you have to get your foot in the door somehow. This year, Im just looking to HOPEFULLY make enough money to pay off my equipment. Then after that, you never know, if I do a good job, and make enough money, maybe it will turn into something full time.

 

[Aplus]

Well you need to work on your confidence. And to get that, you need some practice. Check with family members, friends, etc, and see if they have work that you can practice on. Better yet, if you're serious about this trade, find someone who'd be willing to let you tag along and learn, of course you'll have to work to earn your keep, but there is no better way to learn than on the job training.

After you get a good idea of what it takes to do a job, you can better bid it. Myself or nobody else here can tell you via this bbs how to bid a job, how much, what you need, etc....it's not that simple.

After you get some practice under your belt, go out and sell some jobs, and don't say a word about being new. Just be confident and maintain high work ethics and you'll do fine.
Good Luck.

 

[Mike Gwas]

Celeste,
I was just thinking of coming to the Carolina's for a little golf....... Soggy !!!!! Maybe I will go to Florida.......... However SC is my favorite....
Your lucky only to have rain I still have a foot of snow on the ground...

 

[TheHoodGuy]

$600 for first job. Maybe as a newbie to cut your teeth, $450. Here is an easy way to know if you are in the ballpark. Take the square footage of the deck. Double it and multiply by $1.50. When you know what you are doing you should measure every square inch of wood then multiply anywhere between $1.30 and $1.50 per sf

 

[deckrock]

Hold The Phone!!!

1. My first job i bid was a 16x12 PT deck with old thompsons sealer on it which is about 5 years old. The deck has some algae and mold to it, so i will probably be cleaning it before i apply the stain. It has 37' of railing, of which they only want the top rail finished, the ballisters they just want cleaned. I quoted them a price of $200 for everything. Im probably WAY low, but it is my first bid job. What would you use to just get the mold off, and what would you use to seal it. They just want a clear sealer, no stain.


Hello???? Anyone reading this before they answered? This guy doesn't need help with pricing.... he needs help will cleaning the deck. Hon, you said the deck has 5 year old THOMPSON sealer on it. Thompson doesn't last 5 years. Rule #1: Thompson is a no-no.

Rule #2: They only want the balisters cleaned and not sealed? That's doing a 1/2 job... all or nothing. You shouldn't clean wood without sealing it.

#3.... You said you'll 'probably be cleaning it before i apply the stain'. Well, of course you will clean it. Stain is a different thing than sealer. If you stain, you're adding color. Stains have sealers in it. If you seal wood without cleaning it, you're defeating the purpose of sealing it. That's like putting wax on a dirty car.

You'll find a 'prefered' sealer, everyone has their own opinion. Lots of people say Bleach is a no-no, but we tend to use it periodically. It's been used for years and we personally don't believe it'll break down the fibers any more than a pressure washer does. (This topic is touchy)

You'll also want to learn about neutralizers, brighteners and how to protect plant life BEFORE you do your first job. Please don't estimate any more jobs before training.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Yeah, I admit, I think I have jumped in feet first. I have been doing ALOT of research, and have learned a vast amount of knowledge from this bb and others.

Im cleaning his deck tomorrow, and staining it probably on Friday. We are supposed to have nice weather all week. I'll post some pics as soon as I learn how to turn down my pixels. Every picture I've tried to post says my pixels are too high? W/E that means.

 

[deckrock]

Pixels

You need to resize your picture when you send them. The larger they are, the longer it takes to download.... and if too large, aren't downloadable at all. If you have Adobe photoshop (an example), you can resize the photo. Example: My computer only has the 'paint program', so I can't resize it. I think some internet services have the ability to help you with this.

To find out, use the 'help' menu when youre about to attach the photo to a email and see what it says. It'll either walk you through the process or tell you that you need another program.

Make sure you use Jpeg to download, it's quicker than HTML... and pixels shouldn't be larger than 600x500. Right click your image to find out how big it is.

Again, go into your help menu and see how to resize a photo. There's a chance you can't do it because your computer doesn't have the programming to do so and you'll have to pick up Adobe photoshop or another compatible program. I have heard there is free programs to download off the internet, but I personally don't know any.

If anyone knows of any free downloads....

 

[TheHoodGuy]

Hello???? Anyone reading this before they answered? This guy doesn't need help with pricing.... he needs help will cleaning the deck. Hon, you said the deck has 5 year old THOMPSON sealer on it. Thompson doesn't last 5 years. Rule #1: Thompson is a no-no.

Ummm yeah, the guy said it was his first bid, he mentioned he may have been off and he was not just off he wasn't in the ballpark. If he is serious about doing quality work and raising the standard of this business he needs to get his technique AND pricing in line don't you think? Hon???

 

[rknight68]

Another Newb takes a crack

I used the estimate sheet that came from Reed and Logan before him(which I have tweeked) and here's my stab at this project.

To estimate this correctly, we're missing
how many spindles and what size (I estimated 92*1.5"x36")
number of posts (I estimated 6*4x4x48)
size of the steps (12x48)
Using those numbers I came up with

Square Feet 501.78
Cln/Strp $200.71
Detail/Brt $175.62
Sealing $331.73
Deck Floor 240.00
Post,spdl,steps, rails,fascia 261.78
Gallons Of Sealer 5.58
Total $708.06

and the pros say?

I tweaked the formulas in the sheet to account for the sides of rails and adjusted for the true sizes of lumber. I did not change any of the pricing in the original formulas. I've attached the sheet with my changes and welcome comments.

Rog

Rog

 

[Mark@BSD]

pricing survey

Dragon,

Check out the mobile power wash pricing survey at XXXXXXXXXX Cleaning Co.'s website. It can be very useful for new guys starting out. Do a google search for XXXXXXXXXX Cleaning and you'll find the link. Hope it helps, we were ALL where you are once too!

P.S. I am also a firefighter in Cleveland and LOVE my pressure washing business!

Mark Edwards
BSD Pressure Washing