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Where do you stand ?
- Thread starter onecallpowerw
- Start date
Trying not to sound pompous about where I've been, what I've done, or who's an idiot I'll say this in the hope that it isn't too condescending. Democrats and Republicans alike will always make huge mistakes, and never seem to have the entire answer. That's where the American voter comes in. Nobody will ever have the entire answer, but the impulse for change when needed was and is in the hands of the American public. Don't forget to vote.
The impetus for that change is still alive and that's what makes our system great.
The impetus for that change is still alive and that's what makes our system great.
David Saulque
<b>PWN TEAM - Hood Moderator</b><br<b><font color=
Given the media today and the reporting of events-could we have landed troops in Normandy, Iwo Jima, North Africa and so on. The point being that were are being diverted from what is the proper action, into what will play well on the night news. The coverage of Viet Nam was the introduction into this problem.
Regardless of your side on any issue it is driven to you by the media who look at things in terms sounds and effect. Perhaps a good example would be a 10 round mortar attack as being headlined as a Murderous Bombardment Attack. They put a spin that controls the customer. In time the public will turn, as they did in Viet Nam.
This is just a small part of the puzzle and I fear that this has broken our desire to do the right thing, but rather the easy & safe way. The hard way sometime is the best and only way for the long trip.
Regardless of your side on any issue it is driven to you by the media who look at things in terms sounds and effect. Perhaps a good example would be a 10 round mortar attack as being headlined as a Murderous Bombardment Attack. They put a spin that controls the customer. In time the public will turn, as they did in Viet Nam.
This is just a small part of the puzzle and I fear that this has broken our desire to do the right thing, but rather the easy & safe way. The hard way sometime is the best and only way for the long trip.
Michael T
New Member
Well said Scott
I Love this Country and what it stands for. My beliefs fall under the heading of "Fundamentalist Christian" on many issues. If I have to choose between the two major parties I would have to go with the Republican party. Why? Most of the issues I support are supported by that party. And I will fight anyone who tries to take it away, domestic of foreign. Enough of the soap box.
Along the same thread, my mom sent me this bit about The history of religion and its influence in the U.S. I cut and pasted it in. Its a good read.
Michael T
Subject: HISTORY OF RELIGION IN THE U.S.
Immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of Scripture for the people of this nation. Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution, is still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death"; but in current textbooks, the context of these words is omitted.
Here is what he actually said: "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
These sentences have been erased from our textbooks. Was Patrick Henry a Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here."
Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the front of his well-worn Bible: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." He was also the chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most important role.
On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: "It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed this truth when he wrote, "The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country." In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: " The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools." William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in our public schools, with over 125 million copies sold, until it was stopped in 1963.
President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." Listen to these words of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian religion is the religion of our country. >From it are derived our nation, on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free Institutions. >From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. For all these extracts from the Bible, I make no apology."
Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies, is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."
James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United States, said this: "We have staked the whole future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments." Most of what you read in this article has been erased from our textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth about our country's Christian roots. You are encouraged to share this with others, so that the truth of our nation's history will be told.
This information shared is only a drop of cement to help secure a foundation that is crumbling daily in a losing war that most of the country doesn't even know is raging on, in, and around them.
***********************************************************
A POSTSCRIPT
The elderly American gentleman arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he fumbled for his passport.
"You 'ave been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically. The old gent admitted that he had been to France previously.
"Zen, you should know enough to 'ave your passport ready for inspection."
The American said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
"Impossible. You Americans alwayz 'ave to show your passports on
arrival in France!"
The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he
quietly explained.
"Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in '44, I couldn't find any Frenchmen to show it to.
I Love this Country and what it stands for. My beliefs fall under the heading of "Fundamentalist Christian" on many issues. If I have to choose between the two major parties I would have to go with the Republican party. Why? Most of the issues I support are supported by that party. And I will fight anyone who tries to take it away, domestic of foreign. Enough of the soap box.
Along the same thread, my mom sent me this bit about The history of religion and its influence in the U.S. I cut and pasted it in. Its a good read.
Michael T
Subject: HISTORY OF RELIGION IN THE U.S.
Immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of Scripture for the people of this nation. Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution, is still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death"; but in current textbooks, the context of these words is omitted.
Here is what he actually said: "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
These sentences have been erased from our textbooks. Was Patrick Henry a Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here."
Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the front of his well-worn Bible: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." He was also the chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most important role.
On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: "It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed this truth when he wrote, "The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country." In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: " The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools." William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in our public schools, with over 125 million copies sold, until it was stopped in 1963.
President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." Listen to these words of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian religion is the religion of our country. >From it are derived our nation, on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free Institutions. >From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. For all these extracts from the Bible, I make no apology."
Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies, is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."
James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United States, said this: "We have staked the whole future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments." Most of what you read in this article has been erased from our textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth about our country's Christian roots. You are encouraged to share this with others, so that the truth of our nation's history will be told.
This information shared is only a drop of cement to help secure a foundation that is crumbling daily in a losing war that most of the country doesn't even know is raging on, in, and around them.
***********************************************************
A POSTSCRIPT
The elderly American gentleman arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he fumbled for his passport.
"You 'ave been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically. The old gent admitted that he had been to France previously.
"Zen, you should know enough to 'ave your passport ready for inspection."
The American said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."
"Impossible. You Americans alwayz 'ave to show your passports on
arrival in France!"
The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he
quietly explained.
"Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in '44, I couldn't find any Frenchmen to show it to.
oneness
New Member
Yep, great read! Many today want to ignore the fact that this country was founded on, and because of, Christian values and principles. No, it wasn't designed to be a Christian theocracy, but it WAS designed to allow Christians, as well as anyone else, the freedom to worship, and the freedom to live a life of religious values. The founders recognized the dangers of a religious government, or a government controlled by religion. Thus the 1st amendment. That has been twisted around so much to the point that many believe the crap about separation of church and state. It wasn't intended to keep religion or religious reference out of any government entity or function, it was designed to keep the governemt from enforcing or banning any particular religion.
I'm with MichaelT...I'm a fundamentalist Christian on many issues...on others I'm Libertarian...I vote republican because they do agree with many of the values I think are important. On others we disagree, but that will happen with any party or candidate unless you're just a mindless follower.
I'm with MichaelT...I'm a fundamentalist Christian on many issues...on others I'm Libertarian...I vote republican because they do agree with many of the values I think are important. On others we disagree, but that will happen with any party or candidate unless you're just a mindless follower.
Tim Lynch
New Member
oneness said:
Don't forget to burn a few witches on your way... Real values those true Christians have huh? Speak about how you feel or do things and if it rubs them wrong they say your going to rot in hell or in the old founders way burn them at the stake. Now what is it oh yeah your a terroist unless you follw what we say.To many bad things the church has done to folks! Even rapeing children and they just turn the other way. No thanks I have my values and doing the above to folks is not my idea of living a full life. Remember next time your at church listen well to the child molester tell you about values.
Yeah sure real nice thing going there....
Have your values just don't wear them on your wrist, and don't push them on those that think differant wether it be budda jew or none at all.
Walt Graner
New Member
Limit terms
All I have to say is limit the terms of all politicians. Make it so the only prerequisite for holding a public office is that you never held one before, get rid of the life long politicians. Get the real people that live in the real world holding the public offices.
All I have to say is limit the terms of all politicians. Make it so the only prerequisite for holding a public office is that you never held one before, get rid of the life long politicians. Get the real people that live in the real world holding the public offices.
oneness
New Member
Tim Lynch said:
So what you're saying is that because a FEW people have done terrible things in the name of Christianity (or allah or buddha or whatever) then all Christians are hypocrites?
That's a pretty bold statement, calling my pastor a child molester...someone you don't know, have never met, and know absolutely nothing about. Are YOU a child molester? I have as much grounds to call you a molester as you do my pastor, or anyone else whom you know nothing about. Get a grip.
I'm sure there are plenty of agnostic, or athistic, child molesters. Does that make every agnostic or atheist a molester? Based on your apparent thinking it does.
Whether someone rots in hell isn't based on whether their thinking or actions rub me the wrong way...It has nothing to do with me, and it certainly isn't for me to decide.
Tim Lynch said:
I didn't say anything about pushing values on anyone. My point was that folks who have an anti-Christian sentiment (which apparently includes you) have a track record of ignoring the truths of the foundings and foundation of this nation. And yes, it is always an anti-Christian sentiment...You never hear about someone griping about an observance of a Jewish holiday or anything else relating to anything but Christianity). If I want to wear my values on my wrist, or put a sign with the ten commandments up in my yard, that's up to me. I'm as free to do that as you are to ignore it. In fact, I'm free to tell you all about what I believe, and you're free to ignore it. That's what this country is all about...freedom. When you tell me I can't speak about what I believe, you're trying to take MY freedom away.
Michael T
New Member
Tim , What events in your live made you hate God so much? You seem to want to paint every religion and religious person, especially Christians, with a broad brush. You seem to be focusing a lot on the negative. I made a statement about my political preferences based on my core beliefs, and you ridicule me for it. You seem to be rather intolerant. Do you have any values to live by? What about ALL the good Christians do. Feeding the hungry, Disaster Relief, Education, Housing, Giving people Hope, Restoring Families, the list goes on and on. My thoughts are kind of rambling here, but I think you understand my point.
Michael T
P.S. run your post thru the spell checker next time.
Michael T
P.S. run your post thru the spell checker next time.
Tim Lynch
New Member
I have faith and a strong values and I show no hate and I do not blanket my views to all. But facts are all around even in ones own community. But when BAC grab my children and try to turn them against Father and Mother becuase of some views we mite not agree on then they make it very personal.
Whats is in our local paper this morning is not hate it is in fact current and shows 40 years back what takes place in Gods house. I sure hope God is watching his own house.
EOD:
Wednesday, Aug. 11, 2004
Diocese resists naming priest suspects
The Santa Rosa Catholic Diocese will fight any move to compel the naming of nine priests accused of sexual misconduct with children as it works to resolve 11 lawsuits pending before an Oakland judge.
It’s the latest chapter in a decades-old battle between the church, citing the privacy of priests as justification for secrecy, and sex abuse victims seeking full disclosure as a means to heal old wounds and prevent future crimes.
The diocese has acknowledged that 16 priests faced credible allegations of misconduct with minors. But the diocese has never publicly identified the name of any accused priest.
Seven of the North Coast diocese’s accused priests have been identified by victims in public disclosures, lawsuits and criminal prosecutions.
None of the other nine offenders has been publicly revealed by either Bishop Daniel Walsh or his predecessors, who have a 40-year history of shielding molesters from the police and public.
Walsh declined to answer any questions for this story. Attorneys for some alleged victims are now pressing for full disclosure of the scandal in Santa Rosa, including the offenders’ names, as part of any negotiated settlement of the lawsuits.
But Dan Galvin, diocese attorney, said he wants to settle each case for a “reasonable amount†of money without divulging any names.
“I have no reason to believe we would agree to any non-monetary demands,†Galvin said.
The 11 cases are among 161 lawsuits — representing about 200 victims from Santa Rosa and seven other dioceses — consolidated before a judge in Oakland.
Alameda County Superior Court Judge Ronald Sabraw has said he intends to schedule trials as soon as January, a step victim attorneys say is likely to prompt dioceses, including Santa Rosa, to settle the claims.
Whats is in our local paper this morning is not hate it is in fact current and shows 40 years back what takes place in Gods house. I sure hope God is watching his own house.
EOD:
Wednesday, Aug. 11, 2004
Diocese resists naming priest suspects
The Santa Rosa Catholic Diocese will fight any move to compel the naming of nine priests accused of sexual misconduct with children as it works to resolve 11 lawsuits pending before an Oakland judge.
It’s the latest chapter in a decades-old battle between the church, citing the privacy of priests as justification for secrecy, and sex abuse victims seeking full disclosure as a means to heal old wounds and prevent future crimes.
The diocese has acknowledged that 16 priests faced credible allegations of misconduct with minors. But the diocese has never publicly identified the name of any accused priest.
Seven of the North Coast diocese’s accused priests have been identified by victims in public disclosures, lawsuits and criminal prosecutions.
None of the other nine offenders has been publicly revealed by either Bishop Daniel Walsh or his predecessors, who have a 40-year history of shielding molesters from the police and public.
Walsh declined to answer any questions for this story. Attorneys for some alleged victims are now pressing for full disclosure of the scandal in Santa Rosa, including the offenders’ names, as part of any negotiated settlement of the lawsuits.
But Dan Galvin, diocese attorney, said he wants to settle each case for a “reasonable amount†of money without divulging any names.
“I have no reason to believe we would agree to any non-monetary demands,†Galvin said.
The 11 cases are among 161 lawsuits — representing about 200 victims from Santa Rosa and seven other dioceses — consolidated before a judge in Oakland.
Alameda County Superior Court Judge Ronald Sabraw has said he intends to schedule trials as soon as January, a step victim attorneys say is likely to prompt dioceses, including Santa Rosa, to settle the claims.
Last edited:
Michael T
New Member
Tim, I see where you are coming from. What is going on is horrible and disgusting. I agree with you about protecting your children. I have raised three boys, the youngest in now 21. As children I wouldn't even let them go into a public restroom alone, because of the predators. I agree with you about protecting your children.
Did you here that?
I see your disdain with the "Catholic Church" and the actions of some in their fold. I have zero tolerance for those who exploit children. And shielding them from prosecution and hiding behind " The Church" is even worse.
But don't lump All Christians in that same ugly pile. Even though the Catholic Church is a Christian Organization, I think few are truly Christians, especially those perpetrators in the article. Now this is from my "Fundamentalist Point of View". And this will would lead into another debate. And I have probably offended some Catholics out there already. I hope you see the difference.
This thread has has wandered all over the place.
Michael T
Did you here that?
I see your disdain with the "Catholic Church" and the actions of some in their fold. I have zero tolerance for those who exploit children. And shielding them from prosecution and hiding behind " The Church" is even worse.
But don't lump All Christians in that same ugly pile. Even though the Catholic Church is a Christian Organization, I think few are truly Christians, especially those perpetrators in the article. Now this is from my "Fundamentalist Point of View". And this will would lead into another debate. And I have probably offended some Catholics out there already. I hope you see the difference.
This thread has has wandered all over the place.
Michael T
oneness
New Member
Tim Lynch said:
Don't assume that just because someone puts a sign up in front of a building and calls it a church that it is God's house. God's house is the body of Christ, each and every believer. When someone who is, or claims to be, a Christian does something wrong, even horribly wrong like molesting children, that doesn't mean that God is responsible, or that the church is responsible. Each person is responsible for their actions. I as a Christian am not responsible if another Christian does wrong. It doesn't invalidate my faith.
When I say "church", I mean the body of Christ, not any particular organization. Yes, when an organization like the catholic church hides and covers up the terrible actions of its priests, it is equally responsible for those actions...But the catholic church isn't the Church...It isn't the body of Christ. No organization is. What you see in the RCC is the culmination of centuries of devation from scripture...of putting faith in the church rather than God. (and now I'm sure I just jumped in the boat with Michael T in pissing off some folks and creating some controversy.)
michael t
"But don't lump All Christians in that same ugly pile. Even though the Catholic Church is a Christian Organization, I think few are truly Christians, especially those perpetrators in the article. Now this is from my "Fundamentalist Point of View". And this will would lead into another debate. And I have probably offended some Catholics out there already. I hope you see the difference."
hey you & george bush are texans,should we lump all texans into the same ugly pile,im a catholic & a liberal,i thought this thread was kinda funny,gw
will lose the election again.then YOU said YOU thought few of us catholics
are truly christians.hey why dont YOU stick it up your holier than thou ASS.
fundamentalist point of view sounds like what the boys w/ the white sheets
preach about.
p.s. mike g.f.y.
steve
"But don't lump All Christians in that same ugly pile. Even though the Catholic Church is a Christian Organization, I think few are truly Christians, especially those perpetrators in the article. Now this is from my "Fundamentalist Point of View". And this will would lead into another debate. And I have probably offended some Catholics out there already. I hope you see the difference."
hey you & george bush are texans,should we lump all texans into the same ugly pile,im a catholic & a liberal,i thought this thread was kinda funny,gw
will lose the election again.then YOU said YOU thought few of us catholics
are truly christians.hey why dont YOU stick it up your holier than thou ASS.
fundamentalist point of view sounds like what the boys w/ the white sheets
preach about.
p.s. mike g.f.y.
steve
oneness
New Member
mtnframer said:
mtn:
Nice Christian response. But, as Mike said, who said you had to be a Christian to be a catholic? Kinda reminds me of a certain race of folks rioting and robbing and beating and burning cars because no on respects them. "I don't get any respect, so I think I'll throw this brick through that plate glass window! " Just plain stupid.
Of course, based on your words "gw will lose the election again" I'm drawing the conclusion that you're not all that bright either.
mike w.oneness said:
you crack me up,nice christian response,i remind you of a certain race of people,which race would that be.i am a irish american catholic is that the
certain race of people you were talking about.your narrow mindedness is a
perfect example of the reason america needs new leadership.
steve
Henry Bockman
Member
I'm not going to get involved in the religious parts of this thread even though I did serve in the military and got shot at quite often to protect them and the other "freedoms" we all enjoy. I personally think that everyone has their own interpretation of religion, God or what have you. I don't think we should be judging another's religion though. As long as someone doesn't tell me what I believe is wrong or push their views on me I think everyone should be free to follow whatever belief they wish regardless of whether I agree or not as long as they follow the laws.
On politicians though, I just don't really like any of them. They all have their own personal private agenda and we'll never know what it is for sure. I don't care if we have a president that's sleeping around on his wife because its none of my damn business. That's between him and his family and if he chooses, his religion. In my open minded opinion, I'm just glad the guy with his finger on the button is in a good mood..lol
I don't vote republican or democrat, I vote by what person I feel would do the best job in my interests. I think the whole war thing went further than it needed to. We should have dealt with the terrorists or had their government do it and let them decide what to do with their own country.
Let's face it, they attacked us because for different reasons they hated us. Do we really think destroying and bombing their country is going to make them like us more? Or just cause more of them including their surviving children to share in the same hate against us as the dead terrorists did?
I think we have enough problems in our own country that need to be taken care of instead of running around telling people how to run their countries and their lives.
Did we find bin laden? Weapons of mass destruction? Did we truly free their country or just bomb the hell out of it, then pay to rebuild it all over again?
Whether we find anything over there or not I think we should be solving the problems we have here at home. Don't get me wrong, I support our troops and any man that fights for his country and it's freedom as I have.
I just think that we tend to push our politics on others. I believe in setting an example and letting others follow if they want to. If the choose not too that's fine also but were spending billions of dollars in another country when we could use that money here to solve our own problems. I live in one of the richest counties in the country but the school budget has been cut so badly that the school has to photo copy books instead of each kid having their own. It was never like that when I was in school just 18 years ago.
Re reading my post makes me sound like some kind of granola bar eating tree hugger...lol I do believe there's a time to fight for what we believe in but I'm kinda wondering what the reason is that were fighting for this week. It seems to keep changing from finding bin laden to their president to wmd then for their freedom. Did they ask for our help? Do they still want it after they have seen how much damage it's caused them? It looks to me like their standard of living hasn't gotten any better.
Just a friendly note, Don't bash or criticize anyone for their thoughts. After all, this is what freedom is all about right?
On politicians though, I just don't really like any of them. They all have their own personal private agenda and we'll never know what it is for sure. I don't care if we have a president that's sleeping around on his wife because its none of my damn business. That's between him and his family and if he chooses, his religion. In my open minded opinion, I'm just glad the guy with his finger on the button is in a good mood..lol
I don't vote republican or democrat, I vote by what person I feel would do the best job in my interests. I think the whole war thing went further than it needed to. We should have dealt with the terrorists or had their government do it and let them decide what to do with their own country.
Let's face it, they attacked us because for different reasons they hated us. Do we really think destroying and bombing their country is going to make them like us more? Or just cause more of them including their surviving children to share in the same hate against us as the dead terrorists did?
I think we have enough problems in our own country that need to be taken care of instead of running around telling people how to run their countries and their lives.
Did we find bin laden? Weapons of mass destruction? Did we truly free their country or just bomb the hell out of it, then pay to rebuild it all over again?
Whether we find anything over there or not I think we should be solving the problems we have here at home. Don't get me wrong, I support our troops and any man that fights for his country and it's freedom as I have.
I just think that we tend to push our politics on others. I believe in setting an example and letting others follow if they want to. If the choose not too that's fine also but were spending billions of dollars in another country when we could use that money here to solve our own problems. I live in one of the richest counties in the country but the school budget has been cut so badly that the school has to photo copy books instead of each kid having their own. It was never like that when I was in school just 18 years ago.
Re reading my post makes me sound like some kind of granola bar eating tree hugger...lol I do believe there's a time to fight for what we believe in but I'm kinda wondering what the reason is that were fighting for this week. It seems to keep changing from finding bin laden to their president to wmd then for their freedom. Did they ask for our help? Do they still want it after they have seen how much damage it's caused them? It looks to me like their standard of living hasn't gotten any better.
Just a friendly note, Don't bash or criticize anyone for their thoughts. After all, this is what freedom is all about right?
oneness
New Member
mtnframer said:
Nope, Irish american was not the race of folks I was referring to, nor was that comment intended to be a racist comment. Better wording would be that you remind me of certain members of a certain race....
How can you possibly come to any sort of conclusion about my narrow or broad mindedness based on the few comments I've made here? How is my view of the catholic church a perfect example of whether this country needs new leadership?
C'mon...you can do better than this. Do you really spend any time thinking out your comments? Of course, this is a perfect example of why liberal talk radio fails every time...The thoughts and positions are indefenseable in an open forum. Those shows that DO make it are not open forums...they don't have to defend their positions, just spout the same old tired rhetoric.
I'm glad I was able to provide you with some amusement.
onecallpowerw
New Member
Just as......
Just as the poll shows, we as American's are split right down the middle. It is probably time to move on and forget this post. That is the one thing we can all be proud of. (FREEDOM OF SPEECH). Are we lucky to be able to voice our opinions ? (ABSOULUTELY) In this country, you can be a right wing nut job or you can be a leftest liberal. Unfortunatly for both Presidential Nominees, the majority of America are right down the middle.
Do you really think this is fair to all that serve ? I only know of 1 person from these boards that watched as his son was sent to IRAQ. Reedster knows who I am talking about. Thank God, his son returned unharmed. Would any of you feel different in you opinions if your son/daughter was sent ? The bottom line is that there are now over 960 brothers, sisters, mothers, daughters, fathers, uncles, aunts that are not coming home. They are now gone, never to be seen again. AND FOR WHAT ? OIL ? FREEDOM ? From a non threat country ? We have destroyed these peoples homes, we have destroyed their factories, we have destroyed their economy, we have destroyed their spirit. They hate us and will not forget soon.
Our government blew their house down and now the big bad wolf has even more enemies. Why ?
What did we get out of it ? Are we safer ? You are a nut job if you believe this to be true.
How many of us believe we should have sent 135,000 troops into Afganistan to search and find OSAMA BIN LADEN ? I bet if our priorities were correct, we would have caught him by now...
We get too lost on republican vs. democrat that we forget the what is RIGHT VS. WRONG.
Just as the poll shows, we as American's are split right down the middle. It is probably time to move on and forget this post. That is the one thing we can all be proud of. (FREEDOM OF SPEECH). Are we lucky to be able to voice our opinions ? (ABSOULUTELY) In this country, you can be a right wing nut job or you can be a leftest liberal. Unfortunatly for both Presidential Nominees, the majority of America are right down the middle.
Do you really think this is fair to all that serve ? I only know of 1 person from these boards that watched as his son was sent to IRAQ. Reedster knows who I am talking about. Thank God, his son returned unharmed. Would any of you feel different in you opinions if your son/daughter was sent ? The bottom line is that there are now over 960 brothers, sisters, mothers, daughters, fathers, uncles, aunts that are not coming home. They are now gone, never to be seen again. AND FOR WHAT ? OIL ? FREEDOM ? From a non threat country ? We have destroyed these peoples homes, we have destroyed their factories, we have destroyed their economy, we have destroyed their spirit. They hate us and will not forget soon.
Our government blew their house down and now the big bad wolf has even more enemies. Why ?
What did we get out of it ? Are we safer ? You are a nut job if you believe this to be true.
How many of us believe we should have sent 135,000 troops into Afganistan to search and find OSAMA BIN LADEN ? I bet if our priorities were correct, we would have caught him by now...
We get too lost on republican vs. democrat that we forget the what is RIGHT VS. WRONG.