Where do you stand ?

[OrangeCrest]

Wow!! That got my blood pressure surging and my heart skipping...

I am a Reagan Republican, but Bush just makes me sooooo imbarrassed to admit the Republican portion of that.

I have videos and pics of me when I was on national news stations, when his daddy ran for president the first time, waving a very creative Bush sign that I took a Deucacass (or however spell his name) and cut it up to look like it was being blown up by a Bush sign crashing through it.

I met and shook hands with, then, President Reagan.

I was the model Republican then, now... Bush makes lying look like a kindengartner who has just been caught eating all the chocolate in the jar and dyning it, even though he has chocolate all over his face and hands.

At least Kerry has the ability to check his facts before opening his mouth.

Just like Cheney said to Edwards, "Senator, You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate. Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session. The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight." As the media goes nuts showing the pic with them sitting shoulder to shoulder at a luncheon...

If you are going to lie, at least lie about something people can't call you on.

Reminds me of daddy Bush when he was saying that we weren't in a recession and giving all kinds of money to Brazil...

It should be written into the Constitution that no Bush should be in any control of the economy.

Daddy Bush = Recession

Bush Jr = Recession

Neil Bush = Savings and Loan failure
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/june99/shadow20full.htm
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/ethicalperspectives/corporatefraud.html
http://www.geraldplessner.com/articles/article.cgi?doc=20031205003348

Money problems just come with them no matter where they go...

You will never see a surplus with a Bush in office.

Just wait, there is going to be a huge banking failure yet to come and it won't matter who is president, it is going to happen... Just like I predicted the current recession would happen when Bush took over as dictator.

Look at the current supporters and they seem to be stary eyed and something... Just like when he ran four years ago...

Put your country before your party, your life may depend on it.

 

[OrangeCrest]

Want to get the facts correct? Go to the site that Cheney attempted to refer people over to in the VP debate.

http://www.factcheck.org

 

[oneness]

Want to get the facts correct? Go to the site that Cheney attempted to refer people over to in the VP debate.

http://www.factcheck.org

Yes, that site is good...non-partisan. It shows that both sides lie.

Oh, and Bush, Jr. didn't cause a recession. People who know a hell of a lot more about economics pretty much all agree that the recession was beginning before Bush ever took office.

Want higher taxes in the next 4 years? Vote Kerry.

 

[Dale Walkowsk]

You're right.. the economic experts agree that the recession started before Bush...they also agree that the massive dollar giveaway to the top 1% was stupid in the long run. If the thought is we'll all have less money in our pockets if Kerry raises taxes is really bogus. The real point IMO is WHERE will the tax money be spent? If its all military and tax breaks for business that means federal program funding will be cut..so what happens then..state services get pinched so state taxes go up..then county bugets get squeezed so county and property taxes go up...then city and town taxes go up. you end up getting screwed either way. The only thing that seems to make sense is to make sure the money is wisely spent...Bush dug us a $500,000,000,000. hole and seem oblivious to seriousness of the situation down the road. He is not a very undeluded man.

 

[oneness]

You're right.. the economic experts agree that the recession started before Bush...they also agree that the massive dollar giveaway to the top 1% was stupid in the long run. If the thought is we'll all have less money in our pockets if Kerry raises taxes is really bogus. The real point IMO is WHERE will the tax money be spent? If its all military and tax breaks for business that means federal program funding will be cut..so what happens then..state services get pinched so state taxes go up..then county bugets get squeezed so county and property taxes go up...then city and town taxes go up. you end up getting screwed either way. The only thing that seems to make sense is to make sure the money is wisely spent...Bush dug us a $500,000,000,000. hole and seem oblivious to seriousness of the situation down the road. He is not a very undeluded man.

Yep, we're all smarter than he is!

A giveaway? Efforts to make the tax code more fair aren't stupid. If anything, give tax cuts to the higher earners who will put more money back in, whether it be in investments or in their businesses. I've never understood why it is that losers in the lowest tax bracket gripe about those who work their ass off to be in the highest tax bracket. Why should one SMALL group pay MOST of the taxes? That's just BS..and yet the left uses it to get the middle class all riled up. "To hell with what is fair...let me vote for whoever is going to give me the most stuff". This country is going down the toilet with that type of mentality.

 

[Dale Walkowsk]

Oneness.uhh..I agreed with your point about the economic experts and the start of the recession..so your point about.."Yeah..we're all smarter than they are" doesn't really make any sense.

You've fallen for the BS hook line and sinker. Corporations don't create jobs...consumers do. When Joe Sweatsock has more money and spends it there will be more jobs. Are you suggesting TRUSTING large business to give a crap about your bottom line? Sure they'll take the tax breaks and reinvest for higher profits...they'll reinvest in cheap labor companies in third world lands and Americans can try and compete with crap wages.

Why should one small group pay most of the taxes?..you're kidding right? They should pay most of the taxes...because THEY MAKE MOST OF THE MONEY...DUH. Why should they pay proportionally less?..cuz they're nice guys? Give me a break.

I've heard the line many times before and am still amazed that so many people have such low self worth. The "line" is this one...They work their asses off to get where they are..they DESERVE the money they have. What planet does that come from? You HAVE seen wealthy people in your travels thru life haven't you? You probably have cleaned some of their properties?....do they look oppressed to you?..do they look like they need a break?...do they look like they "work" harder than you...I mean when one of them pulls their lexus out of their driveway so you can clean it do you think "poor bastards...glad I don't have to work like THAT for a living ..they got it pretty tough....they need a break" ( as you're dirty and smelling like deisel fuel) Do you believe your eyes or the bullsiht that people want you to think?

 

[oneness]

Oneness.uhh..I agreed with your point about the economic experts and the start of the recession..so your point about.."Yeah..we're all smarter than they are" doesn't really make any sense.

UHHHHHH, that point was directed at the LAST portion of your commment...UHHHHHHHH

Lexus? Why the hell would I be jealous of a Lexus??? Gimme a break. This class warfare bullshit just gets old...You want more money, then get your damned ass out there and work for it. Otherwise, just shut the hell up.

Sure, some corporations will outsource. Others, like me, will hire folks. Some jobs simply can't be outsourced...Hard to hire a guy in China or Taiwan to serve the customers in your deli or hardware store.

Yes, they should pay more taxes because they make more money. The point is, why should a guy making $300k pay a higher percentage than the loser making $20k? The guy making more money is PENALIZED for making more money? For working his ass off and developing job skills it takes to make $300k/year or more? That's just bullshit.

Why does a guy making $300k make more than a guy making $30k? Because he did what it took to make $300k. He developed job skills to make himself worth $300k. Maybe he went to school where the $20k loser didn't. Whatever he did, or whatever skills he utilized, they're HIS skills and HIS actions...why should he be nailed with a higher tax bracket simply for being successful???

As far as the "success" of the poeple I wash for, I would guess I make more money than most of them. Either way, it doesn't matter. I'm not jealous of anyone. I want to do the best I can at what I'm doing. That isn't dependant on anyone else but me.

 

[OrangeCrest]

Yes, that site is good...non-partisan. It shows that both sides lie.

Oh, and Bush, Jr. didn't cause a recession. People who know a hell of a lot more about economics pretty much all agree that the recession was beginning before Bush ever took office.

Want higher taxes in the next 4 years? Vote Kerry.

Yeah.. And Bush helped it go full throttle by taking a surplus and turning it into a huge deficit and throwing a war in that we Americans will probably never see go down.

I think Bush is seeing exactly how far he can drag down the world's strongest economy and super power and see if he can really destroy both within his first four years.

You can't spend spend spend and have less and less coming in and expect to survive. He is driving this country into bankruptcy.

What happens to you if you spend spend spend and don't have an income to match what's going out? You bite it right?

It's just a matter of time, and the ball is rolling and it won't stop rolling for years to come, even if they cut all their spending right now.

We will be feeling the effects of Mr. Bush for years and years to come, even your great grand children will feel the effect of this administration... But of course it will be the fault of the next administration that takes over that will get the blame, no matter who takes office after the next election.

It really does help when you can take the blinders off and stop cheering on your team and look at it from all sides.

This isn't a football game, this is our country and there isn't a reset button that enables you to start from the beginning again.

Bush's first day in office during the next four year: Bomb Iran then move North from there.

If I were Iran, I would have already started taking out the Americans because you know what Bush's next step is going to be... No Draft? Yeah right, better start packing your bags now son...

 

[OrangeCrest]

You know why the top 2% pay the highest taxes? Because they have the highest write offs... The more write offs, the lower your income, you know, just like you do every year by writing off fuel, chems, equipment, maintenance, etc, etc, and even an extra etc to drop it even lower...

 

[oneness]

You know why the top 2% pay the highest taxes? Because they have the highest write offs... The more write offs, the lower your income, you know, just like you do every year by writing off fuel, chems, equipment, maintenance, etc, etc, and even an extra etc to drop it even lower...

This makes no sense....The higher the write-offs, the lower the income. The lower the income, the lower the taxes....What does that have to do with the tax brackets being out of whack??

 

[OrangeCrest]

And that is how Bush came into office...

I am middle class and I could careless if Kerry raises taxes as long as it is responsibly done.

We didn't become the mighty nation that we are today by simply having a constitution and freedom, it takes money, and lots of it.

I would donate money to our country if I felt it would help, like they did during WWII with war bonds, but when you have a person who acts like a crack adict in office where you give the crack addict a couple of dollars for a big mac and he turns around a shoots it up instead, it becomes pointless.

Believe me, the top two percent isn't going to miss it. In fact, the higher the taxes the more they donate and the more business investment they make because they want that write-off.

I am investing more and more into my business, my kids education, donating materials to the Goodwill, etc... Just to pay zero taxes.

Investment is the key to keeping your money, not storing it away in a bank account, but with Bush's plan with cutting the taxes on the top 2% the less they need to invest.

 

[Henry Bockman]

Flat tax rates...

We all have to pay taxes so why shouldn't we all pay the same across the board? It's true bush has certainly spent all the money in the cookie jar and it's got to get filled up so taxes will be increased.

Personally I don't trust any politician but someone has to run things. I just think we need to mind our own business and take care of the problems we have here with our country and our own people. This whole war thing has spiraled down and changed names so many times I wonder if Bush even knows why were there today.

I don't mind paying taxes, I just want my money to be used to fix some of the problems we have right here. Why bomb someone then pay to rebuild everything we bombed?? Does that make sense? This war has only caused more people to hate us. Don't get me wrong, I'm against terrorism like everyone else but there are better ways to handle it than what were doing. Just think, if people were on the fence about hating us, how do you think they feel after we bombed them and blew up their home? Do you think they are going to love us or hate us? Were creating more hate and terrorists by the way were handling this situation.

I'm no tree hugger, I served in the Navy at the begining of desert storm. I've been there been shot at and didn't even get a fricken t shirt but what has it gotten us?

 

[Dale Walkowsk]

Oneness.. A couple points..you're right I misinterpreted the part of your post the sarcasm referred to....and you're right...I don't know my car models lol..haven't really cared about that type of thing since high school, but I suspect you understood the point I was getting at..i.e. most big $$ is just passed down in families and alot more of it is like alot of other things hard work and luck..but no matter how one gets there..once there everyday sweat of the brow work has little to do with it...so you're reasoning of them"working their asses off" is just a point we'll never agree on.

I'm not jealous of people with huge money. That wasn't the point. I was questioning the they work "harder" for it part.

If I keep my modest lifestyle and needs which I'm quite happy with..I actually don't ever HAVE to work anymore I've done very well with property...and work of any kind had nothing to do with it. The land was passed down thru my family. But I like to work.

I think the people who whine ..poor me look at the big number I pay in taxes ..is where the real bullshit is. If someone makes 30k a year and after fixed necessity expenses are taken out are left with 4k its hard to want to wipe the tears from the eyes of the poor people who make 1 million and after taking out fixed necessity expenses are left with $900,000...someone should distribute some donation jugs for them....they work so hard for so little.

 

[OrangeCrest]

I'm with ridding income tax and just taxing everything 13%

Think about all the tax invaders or the illegals in our country or the tourist that enjoy the things our hard tax monies have created.

If they just taxed everything and stopped doing personal income tax, can you imagine the amount of tax that could be generated?

Unless there is a dishonest business person playing with the numbers, which we all know doesn't exist here in the good ol' U.S., we could can prevent a lot of tax evaders from evading their fare share (which includes the black market, drug dealers, everyone) and even feel a lot better about the other guy driving that BMW living in that multi million dollar mansion and the other end getting the free medical care while you have to either pay the high insurance premiums or pay cash out of your pocket.

I use to drive a tour bus years ago and had a group of Israelis tour the old Norton Air Force base and Disneyland.

The group Leader was going around telling all the vendors that she didn't want to pay the sales tax because she wasn't from here.

It took everything I had to bite my lip. Exactly how much of our tax money goes to protect that tiny speck on the map?

Taxing everything, she would be able to pay a very small part to help protect her adobe shack by purchasing food, souvenirs, whatever.

Your high rollers don't want the flat tax or it would already be... You can't play with the numbers...

 

[onecallpowerw]

Watching and Wondering ????

Just recently, CBS or was it ABC, had a special about our filled up Homeless Shelters.....

Most middle class are living from paycheck to paycheck. They lose their jobs that paid $60,000 per year and no one to hire them. What does it get you ? Losing your home. Unbelievable some of the familys that were on there. Doing pretty well one day and boooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Loses everything and now living in a homeless shelter. I am not talking just individules here, I am talking Husband/Wife with three kids.

In the last 4 years,

64% of all manufacturing jobs left this country
All domestic programs have been cut
Highest defecit ever
1.6 million jobs lost
Medicare up 17%
Hospitalization up 13%
College up 28%
Fuel up 25%

And we should trust this current administation ?

Not to mention the War...... Do we realize what has happened ? Here we have 135000 troops, both Army/Marine in Iraq, fighting a ground war. We have an additional 12000 Army/Marine/Special Forces in Afganistan.

We have entered into half of our Reservist/National Guard. Where are we if we were to be attacked by lets say China ? China has 3 million as current estimates show of troops. What has happened to our Military ?

Bush Camp claims the Kerry did not vote for the authorization of funds 87 Billion dollars. And they claim Kerry voted against the soilders having armor ?

Why in the hell did we send the troops in without it in the first place ? Were we in that much of a hurry for Bush to make sure the troops had everything possible ? I think not.

Politics are Politics and it will always be. But, people better start looking at themselves and ask ? What the hell in going on ?

 

[oneness]

Just recently, CBS or was it ABC, had a special about our filled up Homeless Shelters.....

Most middle class are living from paycheck to paycheck. They lose their jobs that paid $60,000 per year and no one to hire them. What does it get you ? Losing your home. Unbelievable some of the familys that were on there. Doing pretty well one day and boooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Loses everything and now living in a homeless shelter. I am not talking just individules here, I am talking Husband/Wife with three kids.

In the last 4 years,

64% of all manufacturing jobs left this country
All domestic programs have been cut
Highest defecit ever
1.6 million jobs lost
Medicare up 17%
Hospitalization up 13%
College up 28%
Fuel up 25%

And we should trust this current administation ?

Blah blah blah....Just more anti-Bush rhetoric.

Bush is to blame for higher gas prices? Higher collegs costs? The economy was heading into a recession before Bush was even elected. Then we were attacked less than a year later...That was a primary factor in the loss of jobs and the drop in the economy in the two years afterwards. For the economy to be growing at the rate it is now is great. We're doing very well considering the things that have happened. The deficit is due, in large part, to the costs associated with our response to the attacks on 9/11. Say what you want about cutting taxes while spending on defense. It worked for Reagan.

Why is it Bush's fault that a family making $60k is living hand to mouth??? Bush is now responsible for a family's lack of financial planning? "Hell, I'm going to buy a lot of crap I can't afford, I have to have two new cars every two years, I need a nice $250k house, the latest toys, vacations, etc etc, but when I lose my job and have nothing to fall back on, it is the government's fault" What utter BS. Why is health care even the government's responsibility? We have a whole generation of people who are voting based on what they're going to get out of the deal short term. Who is going to give me my medicine/healthcare/housing/tax credits/etc etc for free....Doesn't matter how that'll hurt the counry and the economy in 10 or 20 years.

Not to mention the War...... Do we realize what has happened ? Here we have 135000 troops, both Army/Marine in Iraq, fighting a ground war. We have an additional 12000 Army/Marine/Special Forces in Afganistan.
We have entered into half of our Reservist/National Guard. Where are we if we were to be attacked by lets say China ? China has 3 million as current estimates show of troops. What has happened to our Military ?

China isn't going to attack us..not without being provoked over something such as Taiwan. If they did attack us, it wouldn't be a ground assault. It would very likely be a nuclear attack against US cities or military assets, or a conventional attack against military assets.

We're currently engaging those who were most likely to attack us.

What's happened to our military? 8 years of Clinton budget cuts...

 

[onecallpowerw]

Patriotic American

How bout changing your to title Patriotic Fool. Thats more where you seem to be.

Apparently, you have never seen the side of hard times. Born with that silver spoon in your mouth oneness ? Hopefully your admiration/compassion for your fellow man will come back to bite you in the ass.

 

[oneness]

How bout changing your to title Patriotic Fool. Thats more where you seem to be.

Apparently, you have never seen the side of hard times. Born with that silver spoon in your mouth oneness ? Hopefully your admiration/compassion for your fellow man will come back to bite you in the ass.

Maybe you can change YOURS to ************.

Sure, I've seen very hard times...I didn't sit around on my *** whining for the government to come take care of me.

The point is, it isn't the GOVERNMENT'S job to be charitable. That's something that needs to stay in the private sector. I'm not against helping folks in need...I've helped many families in our church through hard times. I've helped folks outside the church through hard times. I'm not against that...I'm against two things...First, the entitlement mentality that many have. Being the recipient of CHARITY is NOT a right... The second is the way the government enforces charity. They take my money through taxes and give it to others who supposedly need it. To me, that's just wrong.

There was no silver spoon in my mouth.

How much of that "large sum of money" are you going to give to those less fortunate than you?

 

[Dale Walkowsk]

Oneness..What is the governments job?

 

[OrangeCrest]

Sorry to say Oneness, but you really scare me...

You really need to take a Political Science course from your local community college...

When Bush took office, we took a 200 year step backwards...

You say it worked for Reagan? Well then what happened? Oh yeah, that's right... Another Bush was in office.

And... Wow, another recession...

Seriously, take off the blinders and open your mind and take that leash that Bush has around your neck off.

I am a Republican, but in no way will I let a wacko ruin my country simply because he chose Republican as his party.

Remember how we got into this war? Remember all the stories and lies he feed the Americans and the world with to get into Iraq?

He kept testing the world with one story, it didn't work, so how about this... No? Well then, how about this? No? He better let the weapons inspectors in there or we are going to come in... He what?! Hell with it, send in the troops!! Heck with our word, I'm God!!

All he wanted was to get into Iraq because Hussein offended his daddy and he was going to revenge his daddy's name.

He took the world's strongest military and beat the heck out of a third world country based on lies.

We as a people removed a government from office with in three weeks without being attacked and based purily on lies and against the whole entire world's wishs...

He says that it is hard to make that decission to sends trops to Iraq. I think he is sitting in the Oval Office like an arson watching the fire he just set. Like a kid with a video game...

If he were a real president, he wouldn't have run all over the U.S. trying to hide like a pussy after 9/11. What he should have done was hopped on a fighter in Florida and shot to N.Y. and went to the twin towers first hand, but that would have taken a real man to do such a thing.

If he is such the tuff dude, why not go there and fight along side our men and women that he put in harms way? Another George W did... George Washington that is... Even my kid can push buttons and tell others to fight for them...

He proven himself as having a short fuse during the debates, and I even made the comment that he was probably saying in his head that he was going to bomb Kerry's house that night after Kerry caught him in lies after lies.

I'm sure he is asking his daddy, "Daddy, am I a good boy? Did I do a good job?"

Anyone who votes for the fool has the over 1,000 troops blood on their hands!! Unfortunately, you already know who our next dictator is going to be... Dictators don't loose elections...